Andrew Felando, particularly, I hope will be able to help me with this.
I'm rather unsure about where the Nisaean horses were bred. I've been trawling through my books, sure that I read it in one of them, but have so far been unable to find a reference. So, as usual, I reckon there must be some help to be found on Pothos. Can anyone elucidate?
(BTW, if anyone hasn't read it, I really recommend Andrew F's and Sikander's piece about Bucephalus, on the main site. I've just re-read it and it's extremely good and informative.)
Strabo has a reference (11.13.7) in which they are described as "the best and the largest", having been given over - by the conquered Medes - to Assyria as tribute.
As far as I can ascertain, they were named for that richest of the Zagros valleys of the Same name, Nisaea, where they were aparrently bred by the Medes.
They seem to have been regarded as sacred in some way, the Persians themselves are told to have sacrificed one such before the tomb of Cyrus the Great each month. Rather a profligate waste of good horseflesh one might think.
Paralus
Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους;
Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.
Paralus wrote:As far as I can ascertain, they were named for that richest of the Zagros valleys of the Same name, Nisaea, where they were aparrently bred by the Medes.
That was just what I was after - thank'ee (doffs cap).
Specifics about the Nisaean horse breed have not been ascertained. There are numerous references to this magnificent animal in ancient works: Herodotus, Strabo, Oppian, Nemesian, Diodorus, Siculus, Arrian, and Ammianus Marcellinus mention it specifically, Xenophon indirectly. There are ancient notes on the breed from the fifth century BC to the fourth century AD.
When describing the army of Xerxes I (486-465), Herodotus mentioned the sacred horses known as Nisayan because they come from the great Nesaean Plan in Media where the horse of unusual size are bred. Oppian rated the Nisaean the most beautiful, gentle to ride, and obedient to the bit.
The location of Nisaya in the Nisayan Plain is approximately five to six days south of Ecbatana for infantry and less for mounted men, possibly in the Vale of Borigerd. Median clover (alfalfa grass mix) highly nutritious, can be found in that locality, in conjunction with selective breeding superior growth was established.
Armenia also bred Nisaean horses which were not inferior to those of Media. Urartu was long famous for its horses, the Nisaean being introduced there with greater concentrations during the Median and Persian eras. With the mixing of the different strains available from all these equestrian cultures - Luristan, Media, Armenia (Urartu) and Mannea - backed by centuries of expertise in selecting stock, the fertile Median Plain produced a superior horse. There were huge numbers reportedly grazing on the plains. Strabo gives us 50,000 mares (Strabo, Geography, II.14.9). Herodotus, according to Arrian said 150,000, but Alexander the Great saw no more than 50,000 as most of them had been stolen (Arrian. AN., B.7.13, p. 369).
beausefaless wrote:Armenia also bred Nisaean horses which were not inferior to those of Media. Urartu was long famous for its horses, the Nisaean being introduced there with greater concentrations during the Median and Persian eras. With the mixing of the different strains available from all these equestrian cultures - Luristan, Media, Armenia (Urartu) and Mannea - backed by centuries of expertise in selecting stock, the fertile Median Plain produced a superior horse. There were huge numbers reportedly grazing on the plains. Strabo gives us 50,000 mares (Strabo, Geography, II.14.9). Herodotus, according to Arrian said 150,000, but Alexander the Great saw no more than 50,000 as most of them had been stolen (Arrian. AN., B.7.13, p. 369).
Hey, thanks for all this, Andrew. As always, I knew I could rely on you.
Glad you discussed the Armenian breed as well - the whole reason for asking the question was that I have just got back from Eastern Turkey, and at one point we were driving over the Kars Plateau, which was part of the old Armenian kingdom (a bit further north than Urartu, but still within the Urartian sphere of influence/conquest). Someone mentioned that this was a great horse-breeding area and, indeed, I saw a few (very few) lovely-looking horses. But I wasn't sure whether it was a Nisaean area, because I had an inkling that was further south, in modern Iran.
The topic about horses is brilliant and with regard to the horse Used by Oliver Stone it looked fantastic but im pretty sure far too big. We have seen some Roman reenctments in the Uk involving Horses and the readily say how small horses were even the, Even the famous staue showing Alexander Taming Becephalus the horse doesnt look that much bigger for Alexander even as a boy.
I would hazzaed a guess that maybe it would be a little easier to stay on a smaller horse bareback I really wouldnt know. I didnt even know that horses bite until I got bitten in Corfu. I guess I never saw Jonh Wayne get bitten so took it at that.
First, I want to say I have enjoyed this topic immensely. Since I am now rellocated and settled, it is my hope that I will once again be on horseback soon, living in a perfect location for it again.
".. the horse Used by Oliver Stone it looked fantastic but im pretty sure far too big."
Correct. The Friesien was not only far too large, but out of place and it jarred.
Many, if not most, of the Greek war horses were smaller, and though the larger Scythian/Turkmene blood lines were being crossed into the smaller horses, the majority were usually between 13.5-15 hands. Small does not, in the horse kingdom, always equate with weak or slow..
"I would hazzaed a guess that maybe it would be a little easier to stay on a smaller horse bareback I really wouldnt know."
Not always easier to stay on; a lot depends on the skeletal structure of the horse as well as its girth. But it certainly means you have less distance to fall (smiling)
"I didnt even know that horses bite until I got bitten in Corfu. I guess I never saw Jonh Wayne get bitten so took it at that. "
Horses can certainly bite, and depending on temperament, sometimes do, though it has been my personal experience that a lot of negative behavior is human-related.. I have always been involved with horses and have never been bitten to date. Of course, like any large animal, you need to pay attention to the signals being given, also..
As to John Wayne, someone correct me if I am in error, but I heard a rumour he actively did not like horses? (Chuckling)
Excuse my ignorance here but I dont know what a hand is.Iguess only feet and inches will suffice any apologies to the metric brigade. lol
I have seen horses in the movies and thats it but watching documentaries about Monghuls those horses didnt look a lot bigger than donkeys. But they did the job for Ghenghis and the boys probably arguably as good or better cavalry as the Macedonian and Thessalain cavalry. But I have always maintained that its not about size or style. The small poney like horses were more reliable than a thoroughbred race horse im sure. All show and not much go onlly over short distances.
So, as usual, I reckon there must be some help to be found on Pothos. Can anyone elucidate? 