re Alexander been a drunk and gay

[alexanders desciple]

Companions can I ask your opinions; First on Alexander been a drunk and killing clietus, to call Alexander a drink in a society that drank undiluted wine in excess is rediculous, no one called the vikings,the hunns or other prelific drinkers drunks why arnt people intelligent to understand the norm of societies throughout history.Its also been pointed out that Clietuswas cold bloodedly murdered, mayabe so , but look at every bay life how many men on a friday night have dot drunk and fallen out with there best friends to the extent of one getting beaten up, then regretting it the day after.It was the same with Alexander and Clietus only then they had lethal weapons readilly availabe, many people would today kill there best friends if we went out with swords or sarrisas, dont you think.2nd point I have just seen a wed site called Gay heroes and Alexander comes at the top, I dont like it as as I said before times and societys, Once again Atg was a man of his times and the bisexual behaviour was prevelant in Macedonian society at that time as was ,Spartan and Greek where life where patriatical behaviour and living amongst warrior elite was the norm.Alexander had wives and at least 1 child, it cant be said that he had the son for reasons of hairs to the throne, he was advised to do that and leave an heir in Macedonia which he declined, therefore we can draw a conclusion he was attracted sexually to Roxane.I love Alexander and accept the bi sexual tendencies of the time but it isnt right to call him a homosexual, its like calling Jesus gay because he spent all his tome with his 12 friends, Christians would be outraged as I am if our heroes were labeled gay.Let these people understand ATG was a man of his times and not a raving gay.Alexander of course loved Hephastion as he did as he trusted and rlied on him more than any one a bond that was made as a child at Mieza, what do the Companions think.regardsAlexes Desciple

[beausefaless]

Your right Alexander could not have been a hard core alcoholic for his accomplishments would not be so amazing as they were and certain people easily turn into Mr. Hyde (Monsters) after a few drinks, they'll kill anyone for almost any reason, I've seen it and there's no doubt Alexander was this type of individual but it's good to be King cause you can get away with it.
Your right when you say he had bisexual behavior and it's still prevalent today just depends were you live and the people hang (associate) with I would even call him hermaphroditic. The gay society love to claim him, by doing so this gives them more self-esteem as a whole, no big deal, don't let em bother you.

I think your analyses of this subject is right on the button.

[alexanders desciple]

Andrew thanksFor you reply all support appreciated, I hope to continue all conversations, good name mate.regardsAlexes desciple

[S]

Greetings,There is no easy way to discuss either issue without emotions becoming involved, but it is fair to say that yes, Alexander was a man of his times, and should only be judged by those times. It fascinates me that people react so strongly to statements that Alexander was "gay" when they do not react so strongly to statements that Alexander was "straight".. since neither is true. It is as bothersome to read the rabid "Alexander was straight" sites, since they, too, are assessing a man by modern mores and values. Yet another example of the insidiousness of bias...As to the death of Kleitus, the point of the incident was not just the drinking, but what was said during this argument- Kleitus went over the mark. While Makedonian kings allegedly allowed their "subjects" to argue opening with them, it is also true that kings are notoriously proud- and neither Philip nor ALexander would have allowed certain subjects or certain things to be mentioned or said... that is the nature of rulers globally and historically, and these two men were no exception (and *no* king, whoever it was, would allow disrespect... that would be a sure way to get your name on the list of enemies- it is a fine art, to argue while still maintaining boundaries of respect and dignity- and those present at courts and in the aristo understand this clearly) The real question is, what did Kleitos say in his cups that he would not normally have said, that enraged Alexander to the point of losing control.... If you go through all the past postings, you will find both these topics covered multiple times. One thing you can do is read Zimmerman's article, here at Pothos, on Alexander's sexuality.Regards,
Sikander

[jan]

Hi S,I don't have to explain to you, but friends are a way of helping grief, and as (metaphorically now) my Cleitos person is at the pool right now, I have had time to get to the library and read mail. I finally got to this site today, as I had Alexander shelved for awhile since finding Chapter 6 in Curtius sounding like something out of my book review. I nearly died when I read that line or sentence in Curtius. Wow! At any rate, as an Alexander type personality, I nearly blew it again today, being so insecure with Cleitus personality, and nearly ruined my intent to be good by knowing how easily I could be vindictive if upset again by that over the top as you say Cleitus type.Believe it or not, the study of Alexander is very relevant to me as my Philip is being cremated on this day, and I am reminding myself of Hephaestion, so this year, it is all Greek and Macedonian and Alexander in getting through this change in lives from one to another. I gotta tell you that Manfredi's book had a truth in it, as I noticed how like Alexander mom became in her last days. It reminded me of a passage in the book To the Ends of the Earth, even though I haven't been able to find it yet, but looking at the hands, one knows how close to death that Alexander is. This is some morality play still. Just emoting!

[romaneyes]

All the current terms that we use to identify sexuality today is solely for today - our time. We should not technically use them to identify anyone that lived before the creation of these words. But we do. The important thing, is how you use it though. We have to try to relate, to understand someone that has been dead for far too long, and if that requires modern "stamps" to aid in understanding, then so be it.
That does not mean that any given group is trying to claim Alexander (or anyone else) but common traits are common traits, and people will find them, both heterosexuals and homosexuals. And to be honest, if finding a trait even a remote one, in someone that great can bring someone pride and even hope, why try to take that away?
Everyone has a mother that might actually drive them mad, everyone wants to be their best, everyone wants a pony, everyone has loved a girl, or a boy, has a favorite book (or film)at one point wanted to conquer the world and rule it, everyone has drunken moments, either in passion or alcohol. My point is, Alexander is everyone's and no one's, that is the gift that comes with being a legendary, physically dead man. The memory is always for the taking, by anyone who cares enough to see themselves in it. All the best to you all! especially in the upcoming holidays!Luc

[Polyxena]

Nice written Luc,Alexander has been richly depicted so far. That's why we can all find something in his personality to identify with or to be disappointed with. But, we should bear in mind the fact that he was all human, ...or depicted by people... so we should not take everything "for granted" ...I admire him because he didn't believe in lack and limitation like most of us do and that's why he managed to give the best of him.... btw ... he gave the worst of him, too.. but, that's the price of his mortality.Regards, Poli

[neneh]

I agree that it's a bit strong to label ATG either gay or straight, just as it would be absurd to judge him for having more than one wife, which isn't exactly the norm in the modern western world.Having said that though, I think it's quite sweet the way ATG has become a patron saint of sorts for so many people. I think he would have been quite delighted had he known about it (maybe he does . I do think that ATG privately was the kind of man who "lived on love" and proffessionaly the kind of man who wanted to be remembered as the Great King. And the attention he's still recieving should be enough to satisfy him on both accounts.Kindest regards,Neneh