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Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:06 pm
Recently there was interesting issue re;Illyrians and even asked and my reply was sent, re:Yannis K and Demi, there was no feedback. Because is interesting and in fact huge fundament block in this forum and all About Alexander, I am asking them and others, because of frequent use of term Slav aplying to Makedonians, how is possible one to speak about Makedonians as Hellens and Slavs but not as Makedonians (recently Kingdom of Holland/Holandia, has lost it's court battle and is changing everything official related to Makedonians as Slavs, after Australia...), and how one can speak about ancient Makedonian language being everything but not Makedonian, when, as they are saying, there is no written info. about ancient Makedonian language. In that context, I have asked (after some explanation re. name Argead= Argad...), my friend Yannis K, to translate for me in Greek or from Greek, original title of BIBLIOTHECA ALEXANDRINA (this only in Makedonian means Library that belongs to Alexander/Alexandria), with no feed back,(!?), and I am asking him now what means in Greek FALANGA (not phalnx...), DRAGOR, PELAGON! (For your info. Pelagon=Pelagonia is only place on earth with same name from archaic period, and is the place where Filip use to train famous Makedonian FALANGA. DRAGOR is ancient Makedonian name for DRAG/DEAR, DEAR -FLAT VALEY WITH RIVER/, and more, in Pelagon- Makedonia, there is river with name DRAGOR, only there, ... and FALANGA in Makedonia means FALA(FALA=THANKYOU)+ NA(NA=TO)+GA/GO (NEGO) (=HIM), i.e. THANKS TO YOU, that is why millitary was so respected and they choose Alexander as a KING, thakns to them...!) So how come that in Makedinan PELA = BELA means WHITE, White City, i.e. White House, Royal house, and Pelister=Belister i.e. White and shining, this is Mt. above Pelagon in Makedonia (2600m), where in the viligaes, spetially Nizo Pole (means Lower Field), lives for centuries Makedonians, Vlachs, Albanians with respect to each other, and their main tradition was who will be able to learn others language fastes,and he would be winner...! Just to make you aware how to make friendship with respect and what is to be Makedonia, model for the new world...The Light 7000
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:23 pm
i disagree with one part that i see at least, you said:
"the name dragor is ancient macedonian, etc."the prefix "drag" in Macedonia, comes from the Dragovitsi, a slavic tribe from Byelorus that invaded the Byzantine Empire in the 6th century. There are numerous similar toponyms throughout the areas where they settled. The most dense area they settled was the area west of Thessaloniki by Constantine V i believe. They raided the interior of the Byzantine empire , with their allies the Avars. 40 years after their penetration into the byzantine province of Illyricum, they made an alliance with the Muslim saracens, and aided the arabs in a siege of Thessaloniki(the empire's second city). They, along with their allies were defeated, the muslims were either converted to Christianity or killed, while the slavic dragovitsi were settled according to Constantine Poryphornytus in what his Byzantine chronicle refers to the area west of Thessaloniki. The name "drago" survives as a surname in macedonia, greece, bulgaria, and albania. It is also contained in countless placenames throughout the balkans.
in conclusion, i dont think the word is of Ancient Macedonian origin; unless the Ancient Macedonians shared it in common with the Dragovits; which i find unlikely.
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:38 pm
My dear friend,Thanks for that,.... so how come that this name is in ancient books (original) re; Alexander, 2000 y.after/later, ... !!?!.. Looking around the world to find only simple eg. for proving and dissaproving fundaments of somthing old as Bible, is not keeping water my friend, not any more. You should find solid proof for some serious statment from now on, peoples are awakaning, becouse DRAGOR is one of most ancient Makedonian words recognised by scolars, so it is not just my immagination, no my friend. On the other hand, your statment is interesting for biggest question and quest here, how is possible one to find these ancient words in different times in different places, with the fact that Makedonians were educators and spiritual leaders/ educators to so called Slavs and world in general, this with the fact that Makedonians were catalisators for bringing mankind together and preserving various traditions, beliefs, cultures, civilisations... Interesting, isn't it...The Light 7000
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:45 pm
v. you should write a book. seriously. Call it "THE TRUTH". you seem to know it all??????
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:51 pm
next you will tell me that DRAGOR fought in battle alongside ATG. just like Sasha & Tomce.
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:52 pm
Hi my old friend,... maybe you are right, but I am not so interested in making money like I am interested for helping people and mankind in general, if is up to me..., and that is pricless because is unconditional love,
... That way my friend, nobody could manipulate me, and money's are most manipulative weapon for human mass-destructivness..., in same time, unfortunatelly, they are our worst need...!
With kind regards The Light 7000
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:57 pm
what 2000 year old source is the name "dragor" found in? i just named you the Chronicle of Constantine V Poryphronytus that implies the name "drago" arrives with the slavic dragovitsi, literally; in the chronicle "sclavinae dragovitsi".check out "demographics of the byzantine empire". excellent book; especially for info on the slavonic invasions of the balkans.
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:18 pm
Dear Jorgios,...Again, doesn't matter how strong is your honest advice, and thanks for that, it's just simply not adressing the issue here my friend. You just want to play "tennis' in almost different place and time, you can not be in different places and times in same moment physacally, that is for shure, so misleading people here want help my friend, not any more without facts. DRAGOR is river in flat valley, and has that meaning, and only in Pelagon/ Pelagonia this is present, nowere in the world, to my up to date knowledge. For your info., this river is in Pelagon/ Pelagonia valley, under the Pelister Mount, in today R. Of Makedonia.. For orientation, ancient city is Lincestia/ later Heraclea Lincestis, and later under Ottoman rule MONASTER/ MONASTERI, (MANASTIR in Makedonian), even today with that name also is with name BITOLA! Only in Bitola under Mt. Pelister, there is river DRAGOR, with unusual name even for Makedonians, until they started to analize their hystory, independently. The name Monasteri/Manastir, is comming from Turks, because when they come inviding Makedonia, they found more than 40 monasteries in only one small place. It was very unusual, besause there were more monasteries in one small place than in Ohrid/Makedonia and Jerusalem/Israel!...Today most of them are distroyed, and on some they are mosques build by Ottoman Empire! So this is for info.only, just to let you know what I am talking about and for orientation in time and space!
With kind regards - The light 7000
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:40 pm
Quickly, for about 40 years, southern by the valley of Bistrica (Halijakmon) river and western of Salonica (Solun), settled the Dragovites (Dragoviti). Their neighbors north of them were the Velegezites (Velegeziti), while between Ohrid, Bitola and Veles, settled the Berziti (Brsjaci). Near Salonica, the Sagudates (Sagudati) settled and eastern from Salonica and on the Chalkidik peninsula, proclaimed fatherland, the Rinhines (Rinhini). By the valleys of Struma and Strumeshnica, settled the Strumjani tribe and eastern from Mesta, the Smoljans (Smoljani). A part of the Dragovites, settled even in the Polog valley. In the second half of the 7th century, more precisely in the year 675 AD, by the forming of the Second Great Union of the Tribes lead by comes of the Rinhines, Prebond, the Macedonian Slavs, had the best condition and way to form their own medieval state. This was a period when, on the territory of Macedonia, already existed many Sclavinaes (mentioned also as Sclavinii), which represented an organized native-tribal units. All of them were, a seat of the Macedonian Slavic tribes in which Byzantine had no authority. The Sclavinaes were ruled independent by the Macedonian Slavic Comes.From "settlement of slavs in macedonia" from :
Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:25 pm
Dear Jorgius,...I never thought that somone Hellen/Greek on internet will teach me about Makedonia, not to mention Slavs, ha ha ha...! Yes my dear friend, very interesting, and I am not loughing to discredit you or simular, no way, but honestlly, it is interesting how others knows more about Makedonia than Makeonians themselfs. This is true, becouse analizing our hystori, Makedonians after Byzant, was always occupied and reoccupied. So others use to talk about Makedonia and Makedonians, without asking Makedonians about themselfs. Yes, very very interesting. So that is why my friend, becouse of ancient glory of Makedonia evryone is climing to be Makedonian, and that is the most blessed think how I see and how I am working for benefit of all in this reality. Now you will ask me how!? Well my friend, if Greeks, Serbs, Albanians, Bulgarians are climing that Makedonia is theirs, so Makedonia should, and is going to be source of unification and dialoque between all of them, not source for evil, not for angrinness, hate, destruction and wars, like somone is expecting, but source of respect, dialogue, democracy, human and citizen rights, yes my friend, so lets build Makedonia together so everyone could say that he belongs to Great Makedonian Nation!!! Simple as that! (I have to explain my self why I was not expecting above comment, because I never ever regarded my self, nor my family friends etc., nothing else but MAKEDONIAN, and now somone is saying that I was Slav, than Bulgarin, Albanian, Serb...Greek, hahaha, well enough, I am, I was and I will be simple Makedonian, what I was told and was rised by ...). Now, re: your comment, maybe there are Slavs in Makedonia, like Vlachs, Albanians, Turks, Jews..., but population more than 65% are ethnic Makedonians. So what was before so called setlement of Slavs in Makedonia,... maybe there were "wapons for mass destruction" and all Makedonians were dead, so only Slavs reamined, ha ha.! Storry for kids, we are not at that age to waste our time with childish things from Communists and Cold War when Greece and Yugosalvia were main players because of geostrategic position, no, that is past, we are going into the future, so lets build Makedonia as a home of everyone with same rights as a model for better world- is comming!
With kind regards- The Light 7000
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 1:25 pm
Hi Vasko,First I would like to explain my meaning of the word 'slav". I know when and why I've used this word and I will explain that once again: talking about the Vlach people I just said (refering to Yiannis) that they have their own language and if they speak any "slav" type of language (any type of language from Central and Eastern Europe...) that's because they live there....etc.... in the context of that subject. Regards
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 1:52 pm
Hi again,You're right. Now, we can't find an absolutely "pure" nation. And every claim about a 100% pure nation is a pure propaganda and fascism. But, nobody can deny the fact that the ancient Macedonians existed as a separate and a distinct people. Now, I would like to ask you something I read: is it true that St. Cyril and Methodius (they were both Macedonians born in Ohrid... as I remember) used the pronunciation of the ancient Macedonian language (was is koine?) and the cyrillic alphabet and they constructed the present Macedonian language? Regards
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 3:46 pm
Where ever you were born you're a native of that land, it's that simple. When people in North America say the only natives are the Indians I say b.s. I was born here. I have no problem calling Indians indigenous some are aboriginal. Does it matter what your nationality is? you're either a good person with a big hart or a piece of stool. Let me be judged for who I really am!
So Dr. V, when you say," lets build Makedonia as a home of everyone with same rights as a model for better world- is coming " sounds good but when and where ever you live in this world there will always be a controlling factor and you will be free to do what they want you to do! That is the true definition of freedom. I wish you luck you're going to need it.
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 8:17 pm
Thanks for your kind explanation...
Re: your question about Kiril (Ciril) and Metodi, according to info.,they are from Solun i.e. Thesaloniki, Aegean part of Makedonia, today Nth. Greece. They were some kind of officiails in Byzantine Empire (Second Golden Age of Makedonia and the World!!!), and the official language at that time, as well as before, was Makedonian esperanto- yes KOINE! This was widdly used in Byzant, because of great theritory, but they used native language of people around Solun/ Thesaloniki, which was in use for centuries before it, and were sent as missioners Nth. of Makedonia, to spread alhabet and God's word, Gospel, (in Makedonian this mean GO+SPEAL/OPEAL, i.e. GREATNESS OF ONE WRITTEN IN HYMN LIKE/SONGS/RECITALS, like somenoe is making song for the glory of one other and is most glorious thing of that kind, or simular interpretation, is hard to explain and I do not want to go in somthing very sensitive here, just general explanation, like EVANGELIE, in Makedonian means EVE ANGEL LI E E !!!, i.e. EVE ANGEL I..,. it means HERE IS AN ANGEL or more precise IS IT ANGEL, apparently while visiting tomb where Jesus were put after crucifiction, afront of women visiting it following morning, there was ANGEL like figure, and while she was explaining to the Jesus folowers, she was using that term, and like many others, even with intentions, some words have same original meaning even today, they are secret, like THOY/THEE, means exactly HE,HIM... , or HERUVIMI=HEROINI=HEROES,..., HYSTORI= ISTORI = ISTORISE= AND IT HAPPEN...,this is just to explain native Makedonian tongue and dificoulties in translation, because we have rule: speek as you read, read as you write, after so many milleniums of "trvelling" this is most simplifistic way of expresion, and simplicity is core of complexity, like singularity from quantum physics), so Ciril and Metodi were some kind of missioneries, like those from Spain to Mexico and Sth. America, and later visiting Vatican they got permission from Vatican to translate BIBLE in this language, which was strongly opposed by Hellens i.e. Greeks officials at that time and even now! Ciril, was buried in Rome, and every year there are DAYS OF CIRIL IN ROME, i.e., MAKEDONIA FOR ST. KIRIL!...Later St. Kliment i.e. St. Clemente from Ohrid (R.of Makedonia), and St. Naum, continued the job of St. Ciril and Metodi, and they founded first University in Europe, 9 c.ad., so were Slavs educators. From there, form Makedon
Re: cont.Re:DEMI,- FILIP,ALEXADNER,FALANGA,PELAGON,DRAGOR...
Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 8:20 pm
cont.:so Ciril and Metodi were some kind of missioneries, like those from Spain to Mexico and Sth. America, and later visiting Vatican they got permission from Vatican to translate BIBLE in this language, which was strongly opposed by Hellens i.e. Greeks officials at that time and even now! Ciril, was buried in Rome, and every year there are DAYS OF CIRIL IN ROME, i.e., MAKEDONIA FOR ST. KIRIL!...Later St. Kliment i.e. St. Clemente from Ohrid (R.of Makedonia), and St. Naum, continued the job of St. Ciril and Metodi, and they founded first University in Europe, 9 c.ad., so were Slavs educators. From there, form Makedonia and from Makedonians, Slavic peoples got their education and spiritual enlightening, .....Modern Makedonian language i.e. literal language and alphabet, is dating back from 19 cent., i.e. arround 1850 aprox., with the new vawe of establishing nation states, and Krste Petkov Misirkov was kind of pioneer in that field, even thought this language with various dialects was in use, and still is in use in different parts of Makedonia and world wide. Misirkov was incorporating all dialects in one official language, and this is important becouse of, as I said, formation of nation states. At that time Makedonia was under Ottoman rule for almost 500 y., but was not devided, was whole- undivided. From than on there are "problems" with various interests,
spetialy after 1913 when Makedonia was devided between neighbouring states with Bucharest Treaty,.................
In general that is shortest part of the long story,With due respect The Light 7000