Establishing casualty numbers

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marcus
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Post by marcus »

Efstathios wrote:Is prostitution illegal in the uk? I dont mean those that roam the streets of course.
Well, I believe that, technically, it isn't. Not that I've ever really spent time studying the laws on that point, as they haven't ever actually affected me! :shock: However, it is as good as, since almost all the activities related to it are.

Anyway, you know what I mean! :)

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Paralus
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Post by Paralus »

amyntoros wrote:Is Hammond’s “sons of the hypaspists” really too specific? We can obviously rule out the contingent being made up of young women, daughters, or slaves, leaving us with either “young men of the hypaspists” or “sons of the hypaspists.” If “young men” then where did they come from? Not via any reinforcements from Macedonia, that’s for certain, so Hammond’s interpretation that they are sons of the Macedonians, born and raised in camp, makes some sense. Except that Paralus is right about the age problem – they would be too young in 317 unless they were all born of Macedonian fathers and Persian women right after the Granicus! (I can’t believe there are any circumstances wherein children would have crossed the Hellespont with the army.)
They are patently too young for such to be the case. To be of military age – 16 years – they will need to have been born in or around 333. To make up the possible 1,000 at Babylon in 323, they’d have been sired prior to the march on Chaeronea. Plainly they would be neither. More importantly, the Hypaspist corps are an elite corps selected on merit not primogeniture. The assertion seems conflated with his statement that sons of Macedonians (in the Hellensistic kingdoms) supplied Macedonian levies well into the Diadoch period of fifty odd years and beyond.
amyntoros wrote:Former pages, perhaps? But that would mean pages had been brought to Asia by the hundreds each year, leaving one to wonder how long those involved in the pages conspiracy waited until they all had duty at the same time Doesn’t seem very feasible, does it? Meaning we’re left, once again, to consider the possibility that these were Persian youths who had been trained in the Macedonian manner.

(Did any pages become foot soldiers, by the way? Or were they all promoted into the cavalry?)
I sincerely doubt that the sons (hostages) of the Macedonian nobility progressed to the general infantry. The Hypaspists, though clearly the best and elite of that infantry, were not made up of the nobility. Nor is there any attested lineage of Noble command – all the attested commanders are men of no special bloodline or background.

Heckel has advanced a notion, which I find reasonable, that the Pages, upon “graduation” would obviously need to find service in army. There exists, as Heckel states, no evidence for them serving in the ile basilike (later the agema of the cavalry). There is, though, some for the fact that they served in “the Royal” Hypaspists or, as it was later referred to, the agema of the Hypaspists. They were thus the “Royal Guards” – those immediate foot soldiers of the “King’s Guard” that were under his direct command.

Just on the 120,000 serving in India. As I’ve previously written, they are not attested operating before or at the Hydaspes. Afterwards, we have Porus bringing up “whatever elephants he has” and arriving with 5,000 infantry, adding to the 5,000 already serving (Arr 5.24). Phrataphernes arrives from Parthia “with the Thracians left there under his command” (we are not told how many,; Arr 5.20). Later, at the time of sailing, Arrian (6.2) attests to the crews of the craft being “drawn from the Phoenicians, Cyprians, Carians and Egyptians”, further noting that were “serving in the forces”. One can only assume, as such are singularly unattested prior to this, that they were Diodorus’ “30,000”? I really can find little need to carry thousands of Phoenicians – sailors – around Afghanistan and India.

As well, having had a read of this last night, Arrian mentions many operations against many Indian “nations”. In all of these one can – at best – run to ground seven infantry battalions, the Upper satrap’s horsemen, elephants and the aforementioned 10,000 Indians. Significantly Arrian, who generally is fairly good with these details, mentions no Carians, Egyptians or Phoenician sailors assaulting Indian cities.

A last observation, before the office takes me away, on the descriptions of Alexander (by Arrian) at this stage of the anabasis. By now it is obvious in the extreme that a war of vengeance and retribution has been fought and won. That cloak of Macedonian imperialism no longer exists. There are a few interesting passages that salt this part of Arrian’s work, here is one:
It was reported to Alexander that a tribe of independent (my italics) Indians known as the Cathaei was, among certain others, preparing resistance in the event of an invasion and calling for the support of its neighbours. Sangala, the town were they were proposing to make their stand, was said to be a strong one, and they themselves were reputed to be excellent soldiers and brave men…The Effect of this report was to put Alexander on the move against the Cathaei without an instant’s delay. (Arr 5.21)
Hmm, look at that: a free people willing to fight if I invade. Says rather a lot that little passage.

By the end of this operation, the conscience plagued Alexander had killed up to 17,000 of these people and then proceeded to capture and kill 500 of the “sick” left behind by the routed Cathaei. Tallied with the 7,000 mercenaries murdered earlier at Massaga, it would seem – to paraphrase Green – that the man of conscience at Marakanda, who suffered greatly from his moral transgression in murdering Clietus, ceased to afflict him.
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Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.

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karen
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Post by karen »

that the man of conscience at Marakanda, who suffered greatly from his moral transgression in murdering Clietus, ceased to afflict him.
To think of killing a friend as wrong and conducting aggressive warfare, complete with massacres, as right, was simply the moral standard of the times.

That said, I'm posting on this thread only to bring it back up to the top, as a way of goading myself out of my hiatus chasing down those casualty numbers...

Warmly,
Karen
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