Re: Equal to Demosthenese with the Mouth

rjones2818 · Post by **rjones2818** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:25 pm

Paralus,It would be beneficial if you stated that Parmenion's forcing of Alexander's hand after the death of Philip was your opinion. It's an interesting idea, and is quite possible, but there is no absolute proof for it.Rex

rjones2818 · Post by **rjones2818** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:49 pm

Eeeep!I think I hit the wrong button to start. My apologies.Rex

rjones2818 · Post by **rjones2818** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:49 pm

Eeeep!I think I hit the wrong button to start. My apologies.Rex

Paralus · Post by **Paralus** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:42 pm

G'day Rex.Given the nature of the forum I would take it as read that the opinions expressed are those of the poster GÇô unless stated otherwise (as I've done). Nonetheless, I assume the post to which you refer was this [ http://www.pothos.org/forum/showmessage ... geID=24491 ] one? (ps. Why can't we create hyperlinks??) In which case, yes it is my opinion but (needless to say) not mine alone. Among others that think along similar lines would be Bosworth, Badian, Green and Cartlege. A subject I will come to in Athanasios' thread. In the meantime, advice taken. You may have noticed that I made the above as "my view" plain in the more fulsome treatment given the subject in the "Parmenio conundrum" thread I posted. Best late than not ever?!No proof? There rarely exists absolute proof for anything relating to Alexander. The best one may do is to attempt to read behind the portraits and between the laudatory lines. A snippet from the above thread:"The price? After Alexander joins the Hellespontine army for the invasion we find the following: Nicanor (son) in command of the "Shield Bearers"; Nicanor (another son) as admiral; Coenus (ironically as good a judge as his father in law, he is complicit in his later murder) in command of a phalanx battalion (a position he remained in until his convenient death after the Indian rebellion) and Philotas GÇô suddenly commander of the Companion Cavalry. Only Parmenio's brother Asander missed a senior posting GÇô a situation promptly rectified when (after Granicus) he is made Satrap of Lydia."What are you views?Paralus.

Paralus · Post by **Paralus** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:42 pm

G'day Rex.Given the nature of the forum I would take it as read that the opinions expressed are those of the poster GÇô unless stated otherwise (as I've done). Nonetheless, I assume the post to which you refer was this [ http://www.pothos.org/forum/showmessage ... geID=24491 ] one? (ps. Why can't we create hyperlinks??) In which case, yes it is my opinion but (needless to say) not mine alone. Among others that think along similar lines would be Bosworth, Badian, Green and Cartlege. A subject I will come to in Athanasios' thread. In the meantime, advice taken. You may have noticed that I made the above as "my view" plain in the more fulsome treatment given the subject in the "Parmenio conundrum" thread I posted. Best late than not ever?!No proof? There rarely exists absolute proof for anything relating to Alexander. The best one may do is to attempt to read behind the portraits and between the laudatory lines. A snippet from the above thread:"The price? After Alexander joins the Hellespontine army for the invasion we find the following: Nicanor (son) in command of the "Shield Bearers"; Nicanor (another son) as admiral; Coenus (ironically as good a judge as his father in law, he is complicit in his later murder) in command of a phalanx battalion (a position he remained in until his convenient death after the Indian rebellion) and Philotas GÇô suddenly commander of the Companion Cavalry. Only Parmenio's brother Asander missed a senior posting GÇô a situation promptly rectified when (after Granicus) he is made Satrap of Lydia."What are you views?Paralus.

marcus · Post by **marcus** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:26 am

I think a few of us a rather guilty of not making that clear (I know I am), so thank you for the reminder. Yes, most of us are, of course, merely expressing our opinions, but sometimes this forum does suffer somewhat from polemics, and it would do us all good to remember to qualify some of our statements.ATBMarcus

marcus · Post by **marcus** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:26 am

I think a few of us a rather guilty of not making that clear (I know I am), so thank you for the reminder. Yes, most of us are, of course, merely expressing our opinions, but sometimes this forum does suffer somewhat from polemics, and it would do us all good to remember to qualify some of our statements.ATBMarcus

rjones2818 · Post by **rjones2818** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:54 pm

Paralus,I don't have any problem with Alexander cutting a deal with Parmenion. To think that there wasn't any horse trading going on would seem, to me, questionable. I don't think he did so to the detriment of the army, as they seem to have done pretty well under the set-up.On the Philotas conspiracy question, I tend to take the point of view that Alexander had every right to be 'paranoid' of a possible plot. Macedonian kings tended not to die in their beds. And if, indeed, Philotas knew of a plot and didn't report it, it would seem to me justifiable for Alexander to take action. The problem is, to me, that people are willing to see the 'Alexander wants to rid himself of Parminion and the old guard' without seriously considering the 'plot' possibilities from this particular angle. Did Alexander want to get rid of the old guard? Quite possibly. Did he set up Philotas? I don't think so, although there appears to be evidence that he was keeping an eye on him.This is one of those questions that we're never going to be able to answer, unless we find Alexander's body with his journals (should he have actually kept any), and even then we'd have to consider what was actually driving him.I think your points are well taken, and very worth considering.Rex

rjones2818 · Post by **rjones2818** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:54 pm

Paralus,I don't have any problem with Alexander cutting a deal with Parmenion. To think that there wasn't any horse trading going on would seem, to me, questionable. I don't think he did so to the detriment of the army, as they seem to have done pretty well under the set-up.On the Philotas conspiracy question, I tend to take the point of view that Alexander had every right to be 'paranoid' of a possible plot. Macedonian kings tended not to die in their beds. And if, indeed, Philotas knew of a plot and didn't report it, it would seem to me justifiable for Alexander to take action. The problem is, to me, that people are willing to see the 'Alexander wants to rid himself of Parminion and the old guard' without seriously considering the 'plot' possibilities from this particular angle. Did Alexander want to get rid of the old guard? Quite possibly. Did he set up Philotas? I don't think so, although there appears to be evidence that he was keeping an eye on him.This is one of those questions that we're never going to be able to answer, unless we find Alexander's body with his journals (should he have actually kept any), and even then we'd have to consider what was actually driving him.I think your points are well taken, and very worth considering.Rex