Descendants of ATG's soldiers in Pamir

[yiannis]

The long voyage of traveler/researcher/director Demetrios Manolesakis in Tatzikistan, Uzbekistan & Pamir has ended and this is a short synopsis of his findings on AlexanderGÇÖs-¦ soldiers descendants in the region:
The names of the tribes that he encountered are mentioned (by themselves) as: Iskenderi Pamirski, Iskenderi Kuli and Kalashi Iskenderi (in Pakistani Himalayia). All their villages (5 of them) were located in altitudes of 3000 or 4000 meters. These people are proud of their origins and tell various tales of AtG. HeGÇÖs deified amongst them and even though theyGÇÖre Muslims they also pray to his name! The local Imam along with other elderly people mentions of the miracles that Alexander can do: "If a woman cannot have a child, she goes to AlexanderGÇÖs grave, prays and when she return she will bear child". Every spring and autumn the village goes and prays to a grave at Yasmulah mountain, which they believe it to be AlexanderGÇÖs grave.
Their language is a mixture of Persian, Tatzik, Afgan and Greek words. E.g. Kalon=beautiful (Kalon also in Greek), Gynek= woman (Gyne in Greek), arid=nuts (karidia in Greek), Symbolon=symbol etc...
The cause of Manolakakis-¦trip was a reference from Marco Polo saying "thereGÇÖre villages in Sogdian & Bactria whose residents claim to be descendants of AtG-¦s soldiers". Sir George Robertson, a British officer was the first to locate in Pakistan, in 1895, the Kafir Kalash, studied them and wrote a book about them.
University professors in respective countries and professor George Michailides assisted him.
Manolakakis work, interviews of the locals and footage will be used to make a series of 10 historical episodes on this subject.

[THE LIGHT 7000]

DEAR YANNIS,...PROVOCATIVE BEHAVIOUR AND AVOIDING DIRECT ANSWERS TO PROVOCATIONS LEADS TO UNLIMITED WESTFULNESS OF TIME & ENERGY......AGAIN YOU ARE PROMOTING SOMTHING THAT YOU CAN NOT IMAGINE WHAT IS ALL ABOUT, AND IN THE PAST THERE WERE SOME "DISCUSSION'S" ABOUT THIS TOPIC BUT I WAS AVOIDING SOME INFO. BECAUSE, WELL NOT TO TOUCH SOMONE'S INNER BEING, SEEMS I WAS WRONG BECOUSE SOMONE HAS NO RESPECT AT ALL ABOUT OTHERS, WHAT A SHAME IN 21-ST CENTURY!... NOW LET ME TELL YOU THIS RE: THIS ISSUE I.E. HUNZA AND KALASHI PEOPLE AND MANY LIKE THEM. AFTER INFO. PASSED BY ME, SOME 20 YEARS AGO APPROX., THE INFO. ABOUT THIS PEOPLE WAS PASSED TO GREEK PARAOFFICIALS TROUGH PANMACEDONIAN ORG. FROM THAN THERE WERE FEW EXPEDITIONS FROM GREEKS AND ONE FROM MACEDONIANS. THOSE FROM GREEKS WERE WELL FOUNDED AND THERE WAS INFO. ON THE NEWS PAPERS THAT THESE PEOPLE FROM HYMALAYA HAS ALMOST IDENTICAL CUTLURAL HERITAGE LIKE GREEKS FROM NORTH GREECE I.E. AEGEAN MAKEDONIA. THE SAD STORY WAS, AND THAT WAS MY WORRY THAN AND NOW,( RECENTLY WAS ON THE TV /SERIES), WAS THAT GREEKS AND GREEK GOVERNMENT, IN THEIR EFFORT TO PROVE "GREEKNESS" EVERYWHERE, STARTED TO BUILD SCHOOLS AND SIMULAR THINGS THERE, FORCING THOSE POOR PEOPLE TO PROCLAIM THEMSELFS TO BE GREEKS. THE SADNESS THING WAS INTERVIEW WITH KALASHI PEOPLE WHO WERE SAYING THAT THEY ARE KALASHI NOT GREEKS, BUT BECAUSE THEY ARE POOR SOME OF THEM MUST ACCEPT IT, AND MORE, SOME OF THEM WERE FORCE TO BE MUSLIM'S IN REAL SENSE BECAUSE OF EXISTENCE,... SAYING EVEN THEY USE TO BE PRONAUNCED MUSLIMS, THEY HAVE DIFFERENT WAY OF LIVING. SO TO AVOID ANY MISSINTERPRETATION AND CHEEP CONVERSATION ABOUT WHO IS WHO, LET THE PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THEM SELF, WHY YOU ARE PUSHING SO HARD GREEKNESS WHEN THERE IS NO SUCH ... I AM WRITING IN THIS MANNER BECOUSE I FEEL COMPETENCE, THAT MEANS I AM COMPETENT TO SAY SOMTHING ABOUT THIS THINGS, I AM NOT PREACHING STORY'S, SO MY FRIEND KEEP YOUR'S STORY'S FOR YOUR FAMILY AND LET'S OTHER TO BREETH AND TELL WHAT THEY REALLY ARE, WITHOUT BLACKMAILS...OR OTHER STUPIDITY, WE ARE ENTERING 2004. I WAS AVOIDING PREVIOUS CONFRONTATIONS, LIKE YOU WAS EXPLANING WORDS LIKE MERAK ETC., BUT YOU JUST WON'T GIVE UP AND LET THE PEOPLE TALK ALEXANDER THE GREAT MAKEDONIAN AND MAKEDONIA, WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH YOU..., YOU CAN NOT BY EVRYTHING, NO WAY, NO MORE...THE LIGHT 7000

[Nicator]

...Does anyone know what he's talking about??????

[Nicator]

Hello Yiannis,Is there a web-site with any information that we can check out?I find it interesting that Alexander is worshipped here as a god. It was here, that he spent most of his time (as a percentage of his overall campaign) tied down with guerilla warfare. It also seems interesting that this is where he fell in love (perhaps) and married his first wife Roxane. I wonder how much of an after-effect this had on the local people. This must have been viewed as a coup for the 2nd class citizens of Bactria to have Alexander as a family member. Their baron Oxyartes was Alexander's father-in-law...what innate moral effect this must have had on them is difficult to discern, but must have been enormous. later Nicator

[amyntoros]

I would also be interested in any website with further information. I don't know anything about this particular traveller/researcher, but there is a website: http://www.myrtos.org/lalo2.html by a musician, Yannis Manolidakis, who had travelled to these areas to do research on the music of the people. Very interesting, with similar information, though he says many of the Kalash are still pagan.Linda Ann

[THE LIGHT 7000]

TO NICATOR,If this entry is refered to me the answer is: you should think twise to be wise, apparently somone knows very well what I am talking about- capish!
In the context of this I would say- this is all about to stop Greek propaganda with aim: to change identity of native people with all cultural caracteristic from Aegean Makedonia- Nth. of Olimp, Makedonia, Trakia, Epirus, because there are native people there from Makedonian, Vlachs i.e.Epirian, ancient Albanian & Turks origin- capish! Further more, to stop any further misinterpratation of truth, for your info.: recently experts from UK has done DNA tests on 44 Kalshi subjects. Guess what- NO ONE MACHED GREEK DNA! SAME WAS WITH MEDITERANIAN PEOPLE WHEN GREEK DNA WAS MACHING AFRICAN SUBSAHARIAN/ ETIOPIAN DNA!
...If you do not know somthing do not jump, because as other member of the forum mentioned earlier, it could have nasty boomerang effect on you, so be meek, patient, respectfull, & LET'S STOP HERE NOW ! THE LIGHT 7000

[Bob]

Truth=
Greek Ancestry of Northern Pakistani Ethnic Groups
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Y-chromosomal DNA variation in Pakistan. Author: Raheel Qamar, Qasim Ayub, Aisha Mohyuddin, Agna
Filed: 18/10/2002, 15:44:01
Source: American Journal of Human Genetics . May 2002 v70
Readers' Comments: (0) (REGARDING THE NATURE OF THE TOPIC)Three populations have possible origins from the armies of Alexander the Great: the Burusho, the Kalash, and the Pathans. Modern Greeks show a moderately high frequency of haplogroup 21 (28%; Rosser et al. 2000), but this haplogroup was not seen in either the Burusho or the Kalash sample and was found in only 2% of the Pathans, whereas the local haplogroup 28 was present at 17%, 25%, and 13%, respectively. Greek-admixture estimates of 0% were obtained for the Burusho and the Pathans, but figures of 20%-40% were observed for the Kalash (table 3). In view of the absence of haplogroup 21, we ascribe this result either to drift in the frequencies of the other haplogroups, particularly haplogroups 2 and 1, or to the poor resolution of lineages within these haplogroups, resulting in distinct lineages being classified into the same paraphyletic haplogroups. Overall, no support for a Greek origin of their Y chromosomes was found, but this conclusion does require the assumption that modern Greeks are representative of Alexander's armies.
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For further lightening of their origin have been proven their close connection with Yugoslav branch.
If you insist i will post that coparative search.

[yiannis]

Unfortunately there's not much info at the moment on this expedition. The mini-series on the subject are being prepared at the moment based on the footage that has been taken. My understanding is that there will be international distribution.When it comes to linguistics, one has to remember that Indoeuropean languages have a (distant) common origin. So the few words that these people have in common with e.g. Greek is no proof that they're descentats of AtG's soldiers. Genetics, that some have reffered to, are very unreliable also but one has to focus noton if the Kalash are Greek or not but on how come and these people, so far away from Europe, BELIEVE that they are descentants of Alexander's troops. As you see, his aura and legent, still lives nowadays.
Regards,
Yiannis

[THE LIGHT 7000]

Yiannis- Mission- failedQuote: YiannisWhen it comes to linguistics, one has to remember that Indo-European languages have a (distant) common origin. So the few words that these people have in common with e.g. Greek is no proof that they're descendants of AtG's soldiers. Genetics, that some have referred to, are very unreliable also but one has to focus noton if the Kalash are Greek or not but on how come and these people, so far away from Europe, BELIEVE that they are descendants of Alexander's troops. As you see, his aura and legend, still lives nowadays.GǪ Dear dear, look at this now- what a conclusion, remarkable isnGÇÖt it!. Well my dear friend, even birds on trees are aware that Makedonian language is core of all Indo-European languages, that is why people are going for prayer to YASMULAH i.e. YAS=I/AM,+MULAH/MULAM/MOLAM=PRAYER, = I AM PRAYING, like ISKAN+DAR= BELOVED GIFT=ALEXANDER, variation are SGÇÖKANDA=SKANDA INDIA, ,SKENDER-TURKEY i.e. MUSLIM WORD, SCANDIA=SCANDINAVIA, GǪ.Somewhere there, Makedonian and Kelts were mixing their languages and culture long long time before settlement of today Hellenic ancestors has settled on Makedonian soil, long long before tribal city statesGǪGǪBut now it is not important that those people-KalashiGǪ, are not GÇ£GreeksGÇ¥, but how they come so far from Europe, ha ha ha, maybe there was no weapons for mass destruction so they had jumbo jet charter flight, but I am not sure which company!GǪ Well my friend, how come that nothing is important but transport, when all the problems were there! Language is not importantGǪ, now genetics i.e. most advanced diagnostic tools nowadays- DNA tests are not reliable,GǪ, and what was elseGǪ Again contradiction: GǪwordsGǪ GǪGÇ¥GreeksGÇ¥.are no proof they are GǪdescendents of ATGGÇÖs soldiersGǪ but- Greek language!? If Helens were settlers on Macedonian soil 15-18 cb.c., how come that their language and everything else is older than native Makedonian people, and how come that this term is in constant use when there was no such a state than and until 1830GǪ How, and why all this circus.. I feel sorry for proud Helens/GreeksGǪObviously you and your Co. was going to manipulate everyone here, but now it seems that all masks are almost down, so why do not leave people to talk Alexander and Makedonia, with objectiveness and without make ups. I do not think that you have obsession for not being objective, and you do not seems average person, so you should just go fishing for a while, and t

[THE LIGHT 7000]

I feel sorry for proud Helens/GreeksGǪObviously you and your Co. was going to manipulate everyone here, but now it seems that all masks are almost down, so why do not leave people to talk Alexander and Makedonia, with objectiveness and without make ups. I do not think that you have obsession for not being objective, and you do not seems average person, so you should just go fishing for a while, and take, if not all but some from your Co. with you, just to make you coffee, if you do not have something else to do, just for a while, take a brake!GǪ
And please avoid alcohol while taking tablets and while driving, it could interfere with prescribed tablets. Independent short movie is done by some TV channel about Kalashi problems, with interviewGÇÖs about manipulation from Greeks via schools, various welfare agencies, religion etc., to make them GÇ£GreeksGÇ¥, taking advantage on them being very very poor, not having insight in their position and their important role in this context, pure misery in 21-st centuryGǪAll the best and Happy Makedonian New Year- 14-th of January, 7616, and Happy Makedonian Christmas 07-th of January
(We are saying- Jesus is Born, answer from other is GÇô Really is bornGǪ, Za mnogu godini= For many years, -AmenGǪ),With all my Love Truth & Light
The Light 7000

[marcus]

Oh, for goodness' sake!

[stavros]

.

[Dok]

Genetics, that some have reffered to, are very unreliable also ....
In the paper is cleary stated "Genetic distances", what is commonly used in law court cases when
there are need to find genetic relathionships.
If court can accept these finding on relationships
beetween brothers ,sisters,parenthood and even nathional descendency in the case with indigenous
people like North American indians and to use them
I cannot see what is so special in this case?
I mean your point can be applyed in the sixties-last cenury,but not today.

[Dok]

Barwazi,Pastok,Pushen,Jeshtak and Uchau are most dinstinct and popular traditional songs.I have allredy all of them in my collection for at last 7 years.Definitely type of slavic songs in use in today western mountain region of Fyro-Macedonia.I dont know (what on the earth???) how they find some Greek influence in them.It is total nonsens!!!.What is more a lot of building and woodwork is in copy simmilarity with houses in the mounaneus region.
Most of traditional dances are simmilar to dances from Balcan people.Who knows-maybe it is this a protoslavic tribe with no connection at all to AtG,or...

[THE LIGHT 7000]

RE: Failing Greek propaganda machinery with no base & logicGǪChoosing to prove Greenness everywhere, some persons are using everything what they have, without proper check upGÇÖs, just to GÇ£GǪearn their daily 30 silver coinsGǪGÇ¥. Some are doing their job professionally, but with not knowing what is all about, others are misusing their work or simular, making problems with who knows what kind of interests or secret agendas, so nothing is black and white, and one must have to have understanding and patients with respect, to solve the problemsGǪThe case with language- words, traditional clothes and meals, drinks, and now with music, they are absolutely with no base at all, speaking from aspect of belonging to Greek. Not recognising anyone and declaring that there are only Greeks in Greece is political suicide of false fabricated day to day strategy full of blindness, no respect etc. This is boomerang not to Greece, but to all countryGÇÖs that are following that path. Recent events locally and globally are best example of this, unfortunatelyGǪGǪPointed eg. with music, GÇ£Greek music over Himalayas and the worldGÇ¥, is absolutely absurd. This can only be understand as a national puberty of artificial nation. Why!!! It is very simple. HOW! -
Simply because Makedonian traditional folk music is unique in the world with itsGÇÖ own 16-th rhythmic tact and was source of inspiration for many including jazz or some progressive rock famous artists such as John Mcclaphlin, Mahvishni Orchestra, maybe Emerson Lake & Palmer, in the rock- Deep Purple, and the biggest impact had in some of the songs of Black Sabbath! On the other hand pointed out instrument is nothing than Makedonian traditional instrument known as KAVAL, sort of short flute. This together with Makedonain instruments such as GAYDA, the best description is Scottish traditional instrument (you can not missed GǪ), described even more sophisticated than the Scottish one, DRUMS and ZURLA (z-urla=like screaming), instrument simular to modern saxophone, are cultural identity of Makedonian folklore. More on this, music from this part of world has similarities with ancient Vlach and ancient Albanian traditions, and latter maybe GÇ£borrowedGÇ¥ by Helens. In that context one can find similarities in German- Austrian folklore, (Makedono-Keltic elements), but as was mentioned, Makedonian 16 or even 32 rhythmic tact is unique in the world, no mistake there! Many years ago, while still in in Yugoslav frame, R. of Makedonia w