Please compare Darius the Great with Alexander (the Great??)

[Cyrus]

"In 492 BC, Darius the Great imposed democracy on Ionian cities.", Herodotus, Greek historianWhat did Alexander? I think he imposed dictatorship!"Darius the King says: This is what I did by the favor of Ahuramazda in one and the same year after that I became king. 19 battles I fought; by the favor of Ahuramazda I smote them and took prisoner 9 kings.", Behistun inscription of Darius the GreatHow many kings were taken prisoner by Alexander? I think 0!"By the favor of Ahuramazda my father Hystaspes and Arsames my grandfather, these both were living when Ahuramazda made me king in this earth.", Inscription of Darius the Great in SusaIt shows that Darius obtained the crown by his struggle, what about Alexander? It is said that a city named Alexandria was built in Egypt by Alexander! Is there any evidence for it? Bu what did Darius in Egypt:
"Darius the King says: I am a Persian; from Persia I seized Egypt; I gave order to dig this canal from a river named Nile which flows in Egypt, to the sea which goes from Persia. Afterward this canal was dug thus as I had ordered, and ships went from Egypt through this canal to Persia thus as was my desire." Suez inscription of Darius the GreatIf you travel to Egypt then you can see this inscription along the Suez canal at Tell el-Maskhutah, at the end of Wadi Tumilat, in the Kabret region and near the end of the canal.First highway: Darius the Great
First satrapy system: Darius the Great
First banking house: Darius the Great
First cheque: Darius the Great
First underground irrigation system: Darius the Great
First common coinage in history: Darius the Great
Standardization of weights and measures and the codification of commercial laws: Darius the Great
Invention of polo for both sport and combat training: Darius the Great
Postal service, officers of justice in every land, police force, regular system of taxation, First International Project(Persepolis), ... : Darius the Great

[beausefaless]

"In 492 BC, Darius the Great imposed democracy on Ionian cities.", Herodotus, Greek historian: My answer, Darius imposed dictatorship but he was a great king.
How many kings were taken prisoner by Alexander? I think 0!: My answer, There was only one king of Persia during Alexanders time and your people (Persians) killed him, sum race killing their own king but Alexander did not hold that against them just the low life's involved.
It shows that Darius obtained the crown by his struggle, what about Alexander?:My answer, Alexander never lost a battle he fought, even the small ones which were many.
It is said that a city named Alexandria was built in Egypt by Alexander! Is there any evidence for it?: My answer, Alexander discovered Alexandria and left instructions for the development.
Afterward this canal was dug thus as I had ordered, and ships went from Egypt through this canal to Persia thus as was my desire." Suez inscription of Darius the Great: My answer, the original Suez cannel was built by Ptolemy II and later after droughts it was covered by sand for some years then re dredged this scenario went on more than a few times until the somewhat past present when the Egyptians finally kept it together.
Darius the Great First common coinage in history: My answer, the Athenians have that honor, older than 550 BCE even older. Alexander's coinage (silver & gold) was recognized known world wide including Arabia Darius's silver was not (in the west)
Darius the Great Invention of polo for both sport and combat training:I'll give you this one but they used peoples heads and they were very good horseman.
I say BULL to the rest of what you say. I'll let someone else debate the remainder of what you say for the way the Iranians treated my fellow brothers during the 70's after all the help the U.S. gave the Iranians. I say this to you with all respect.

[Nicator]

Dear Beaucefales,Thank you for the most eloquent reply to a most thoughtless post by an uneducated barbarian. It makes you wonder what kind of idiot would let this sort of malicious, malinformed, and ignorant post onto pothos? later Nicator

[Nicator]

Cyrus, it seems like every few months you launch an ill-begotten, poorly thought out attack on our great Alexander. Do you not realize that this is Alexander's home? What kind of person would come into your home and trash-talk you there? What kind of person would do this, and expect anybody to like him or listen to him? You slanders would sicken me if I thought enough of you to allow you to do so. Cyrus, there are better places to post your garbage (like an outhouse wall)GET SOME THERAPY, YOUR ATTITUDE SUCKS!!!

[nick]

Hi Nick -I hate it to see the Forum getting dirty (again). It was - as I recall - three years ago when we really had this daily problem with people abusing eachother (ending up in racist postings etcetera). Now I don't believe any of us would like to see the Forum going down that direction again.Even if this is Alexander's Home on the Web, I suppose that leaves plenty of room to discuss the merits, strenghts and weaknesses of his opponents as well. I can not see why Cyrus's posts are out of line by definition. Reflecting on Ancient Persia could lead to a deeper insight in Alexander as well.I would also remind you of two facts: some scholars (Pierre Briant, Peter Green as well to a lesser extent) have argued that Alexander was really the last true heir to the Achaemenid throne. Secondly, the critizism of Cyrus is dwarfed by the attitude of e.g. Ian Worthington who advocates the image of 'Alexander the Miserable'.I certainly know only a little bit about the Persian Empire, but you are right saying that Cyrus's postings are not always that well researched. On the other hand, we also had many ill researched postings and answers about Alexander. Even if you think Cyrus's postings are out of line, please do all of us a favor and keep the replies decent and sophisticated. If you think Cyrus is posting "garbage", please don't start posting garbage yourself.Best regards -Nick

[agesilaos]

Hear,hear; disagreements of this type need to be addressed by reference to the sources. If there is no answer there then maybe the other side is right.Still rather than listing things where is the evidence for the police-force and the officers of the law in every land? And what were they called? How did they function. The structures that Alexander found in existance might shed some light on the nature of his adminisrative structure through reference forward to Achaemenid survivals into Seleucid times. This might have a point, but the my hero is better than your hero argument really belongs in the playground...oops I'd better go and write an essay on 'Hypocrisy as a theme in Arrian' by way of penance.

[panos]

Coming back to the topic of this string:CyrusI would like to remind you that the tilte Great was attributed to both men but for a different reason. Darius was named like that because of his position (King of the GREAT persian empire). On the other hand Alexander received this title because of his actions and his behaviour. After all he was always in front line in each battle leading and encouraging his troops, he never lost a battle and -for me the most important- he never ran away from a battle when things were tough: When the Persian Army was beaten at Issus Darius FLED leaving EVERYTHING (also his Greatness)behind him.Also lets not forget the slaughter of the wounded close to Issus by Darius army. (Not exactly the behaviour of a Great man).Last but not least: The fact that there is a forum of people debating about the achievements and the personality of Alexander that left us 2327 years ago, I think it qualifies him as Great.Respect, Panos

[beausefaless]

A canal was built in the 20th or 19th cent. B.C. to Lake Timsah (then the northern end of the Red Sea).With all due respect to Xerxes I who had the canal extended, this canal was engineered more efficiently by Ptolemy II and then Trajan and because of ingenious engineering, notably by Ptolemy II, this canal lasted over ten centuries before it fell into disrepair. Modern historians give the original credit to Ptolemy II. The Egyptians are contemplating on deepening the canal to accommodate super tankers(they could be working on this project today). My sources are easy to find if you have the time.

[dean]

Hello,I think that an analysis and knowledge of Darius is necessary to understand the bigger picture of Alexander the great's life.I think that Alexander's actions, after Darius fled the battlefied and was killed by his own, are nothing short of noble. He methodically went after Darius' killer, Bessus with the sole intention of bringing him to justice- which he did. As previously mentioned, Alexander considered himself the legitimate heir of Persia and he acted that way.By the way, this is a friendly site. Let's keep it that way!!!!!Best regards,
Dean.

[beausefaless]

Was there names and # in cuneiform on that wall? Sorry for feeding the fire but just couldn't help myself. I'm guilty as charged. Catch you later Nicator.

[Nicator]

"I hate it to see the Forum getting dirty (again)."Great, then do something about it, and delete this entire string, and warn Cyrus about posting this sort of thing again. I, for one, have better things to do with my time than to wade through slanderous posts. "...problem with people abusing each other (ending up in racist postings etcetera). Now I don't believe any of us would like to see the Forum going down that direction again."...and yet I can't help but notice the intrinsic racism in Cyrus' post, and the deeper notion of racism in yours. By allowing Cyrus' post to stay you are giving in to racism by default. It indicates to me that it's ok to let an inferior person post whatever he wants because he just isn't intelligent enough to know better...so we have to humor him because we are superior, i.e...we are better, so lets act better, so to speak. Cyrus' form of racism is easy to deal with, it's open and out front. Your form of racism is more difficult. It is the basis for political correctness and is one of the great insidious wrongs of our time. "Even if this is Alexander's Home on the Web, I suppose that leaves plenty of room to discuss the merits, strenghts and weaknesses of his opponents as well. I can not see why Cyrus's posts are out of line by definition. Reflecting on Ancient Persia could lead to a deeper insight in Alexander as well."If Cyrus' post was simply raving about Darius I, then I would agree with you...but it was not. It was a deliberate attempt to slander Alexander. Also, Cyrus has a history of this sort of post...it's not intelligent discourse, it is another pathetic attempt at denegrating Alexander in favor of yet another Persian King. "I would also remind you of two facts: some scholars (Pierre Briant, Peter Green as well to a lesser extent) have argued that Alexander was really the last true heir to the Achaemenid throne." Why would you remind me? Cyrus seems to be the one that needs reminding..."Secondly, the critizism of Cyrus is dwarfed by the attitude of e.g. Ian Worthington who advocates the image of 'Alexander the Miserable'."You meant critizism by Cyrus, right? I'm not so sure I'd put Cyrus and Ian Worthington in the same sentence...but whatever?"I certainly know only a little bit about the Persian Empire, but you are right saying that Cyrus's postings are not always that well researched."That's not the point here! We are all guilty of poorly thought out or weakly

[Nicator]

cont'd..."I certainly know only a little bit about the Persian Empire, but you are right saying that Cyrus's postings are not always that well researched."That's not the point here! We are all guilty of poorly thought out or weakly researched posts from time to time. Certainly we, every one of us, have had to start out somewhere. "Even if you think Cyrus's postings are out of line, please do all of us a favor and keep the replies decent and sophisticated."Right, we have to keep our posts "decent and sophisticated" because we are more intelligent than Cyrus (who can pretty much post whatever he wants)...I understand. Maybe you can do us all a favor and stop advocating a double standard. "If you think Cyrus is posting "garbage", please don't start posting garbage yourself."I'm not aware of any "garbage" that I've posted Nick? I think right now the only logical thing to do is to delete this entire string. Unless Cyrus apologizes and agrees to at least try to keep his posts "decent and sophisticated" (like the rest of us) from now on. later Nicator

[jan]

Hi NickW,I am impressed with the reference to Alexander the Miserable. Very funny! Actually, I think that Ian thinks he is Alexander the Cursed if not the Great!And I support your view of the Cyrus debate, especially since Alexander showed such respect for the tomb of Cyrus.One of these two can be compared to the race horse Secretariat, but I am not certain which to decide upon, Cyrus or Alexander, or maybe both.

[nick]

Thanks Jan -Indeed, it was "the Cursed", not "the Miserable". I didn't have his book at hand, but I knew he called him something quite negative. Sorry for the confusion.Best regards -Nick

[nick]

Hi Nick -This discussion reminded me of one of my favorite anecdotes in Plutarch. Quote:"On one occasion some ambassadors from the king of Persia arrived in Macedon, and since Philip was absent, Alexander received them in his place. He talked freely with them and quite won them over, not only by the friendliness of his manner, but also because he did not trouble them with any childish or trivial inquiries, but questioned them about the distances they had traveled by road, the nature of the journey into the interior of Persia, the character of the king, his experience in war, and the military strength and prowess of the Persians. The ambassadors were filled with admiration."End quote. [Plutarch; 5]Isn't this what Alexander's Home on the Web should be like?Best regards -Nick