Ptolemy & Alexander Brothers???

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Post by Chris Bennett »

amyntoros wrote:
Taphoi wrote:There is no great difficulty in believing that the fact that Alexander had been pronounced dead on the evening of the 28th Daisios was not generally proclaimed by the Friends until the next morning.
Aristobulos was a man with much privileged information on whom Arrian frequently relies. Yet according to the above I must accept that he was a man of relatively little importance who learned of AlexanderGÇÖs death only when it was proclaimed to the rank and file, and furthermore that he did not have access to anyone who could tell him the details and/or the exact time of AlexanderGÇÖs death! IGÇÖm afraid there IS great difficulty in believing it - on my part at least. :)

Best regards,
I'm inclined to agree. Currently my thinking about this, assuming the Ephemerides are accurate, starts with the fact that Aristoboulos was 84 when he wrote his memoirs. Hammond argues that he did not have the Ephemerides available to him at the time because Ptolemy was sitting on them. It may be that Aristoboulos did not recall or was not interested in the precise date and simply meant "at the end of Daisios".

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Post by Taphoi »

amyntoros wrote: Aristobulos was a man with much privileged information on whom Arrian frequently relies. Yet according to the above I must accept that he was a man of relatively little importance who learned of AlexanderGÇÖs death only when it was proclaimed to the rank and file, and furthermore that he did not have access to anyone who could tell him the details and/or the exact time of AlexanderGÇÖs death! IGÇÖm afraid there IS great difficulty in believing it - on my part at least.
"...his soldiers longed to see him..., because it was being put about that he was already dead and they suspected that his death was being concealed by the bodyguards [somatophylakon]" Arrian, Anabasis Alexandrou 7.26.1 (similarly Plutarch 76.4)

Looks like Alexander's army thought it both feasible and likely that the Bodyguards or the Companions/Friends would have concealed Alexander's death. Who are we to tell them they were wrong?

On the question of whether Aristoboulos was either a Bodyguard or a Friend, obviously not in the former case and improbable in the latter. The best approximation to a list of the Friends is the list of trierarchs in the Indica: Ptolemy, Nearchus, Medius, Onesicritus (as Alexander's helmsman) and Eumenes (author of the Ephemerides) are all there, but there's no sign of Aristoboulos. Neither is he among the guests at Alexander's last party in the Liber de Morte. Jacoby's Testimony on him is fairly thin and almost all relates to his later fame as an author.

Best wishes,

Andrew
Last edited by Taphoi on Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Date of Alexander's death

Post by Taphoi »

Chris Bennett wrote:
There are other reasons to look at these dates. The Ephemerides appear to be primary evidence for the nature of the Macedonian day, and they clearly used a dawn-dawn day count, but Samuel argued that this was not the actual Macedonian day. Is it a good argument? Part of his objection is the decad format in Plutarch, counting down the waning moon. While not absolutely unique, it is extremely rare in surviving Macedonian records from Egypt or elsewhere (though not quite as rare as Samuel thought) -- is that a valid reason to suppose the Diarist was not a native Macedonian and therefore did not use a Macedonian day? If we can't trust his day to be Macedonian, why should we trust his date of the 28th to be the Macedonian date? The reason for the format may lie elsewhere. Aelian's excerpt from the Ephemerides uses the same format as Plutarch for the 28th but uses a regular forward count for the 24th. So does the decad count reflect Plutarch's or Aelian's representation of the dates rather than that of the Diarist?
But are you not aware that the "diarists" were very probably Eumenes of Cardia in the Chersonese (a colony of Miletus and Athens) and Diodotus of Erythrae in Ionia? Neither native Macedonians. I don't see any difficulty in believing that they would have adopted the Macedonian calendar (since they wrote for the Macedonian king), but they may well not have gone so far as to adopt Macedonian day numbering conventions or even the Macedonian day. The fact that there were at least two of them means that spontaneous changes of format are not so surprising. However, I will also mention that I suspect that the Aelian fragment (and probably some of the others) was transmitted via an Olynthian pen.

Cordially,

Andrew
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Post by dean »

Hello,

A couple of things-
While just flicking through my copy of Curtius, I happened to read the segment dedicated to Ptolemy- when he is badly wounded and Alexander insists on having a bed placed in PtolemyGÇÖs room so he may sleep and lay vigil over him- it is quite a touching passage. Also of course comes immediately after the narrative about Ptolemy supposedly being AlexanderGÇÖs brother. Although my opinion about this remains unchangedGǪ

Regarding the reference about the month of Daisos, I read in Plutarch that the footnotes mentions the following referring to Plutarch 75,6

GÇ£The month of Daisos had 29 days, (see Plutarch 16,2) and the contradiction is owing to the fact that Aristobulus going on the Greek custom took 7 OGÇÖclock in the afternoon as the beginning of the following day.GÇ¥

This footnote arises due to the fact that in Plutarch 75,6, it says,

GÇ£Aristobulus says on the other hand, because he had had a high fever and been very thirsty he had drunk wine and that he had become delirious, dying on the thirtieth of the month of Daisos.GÇ¥

Interestingly in Plutarch 16 we find that it says the Macedonians didnGÇÖt take to the battlefield in the month of Daisos.

Again in the footnotes there is reference to the month of Daisos- stating that the reason for not taking to the battlefield in this month must be because of the harvest. This of course didn't stop Alexander crossing the Grannicus. The month corresponds to the Attic month of Thargelion.

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Dean
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Re: Date of Alexander's death

Post by Chris Bennett »

Taphoi wrote: But are you not aware that the "diarists" were very probably Eumenes of Cardia in the Chersonese (a colony of Miletus and Athens) and Diodotus of Erythrae in Ionia? Neither native Macedonians. I don't see any difficulty in believing that they would have adopted the Macedonian calendar (since they wrote for the Macedonian king), but they may well not have gone so far as to adopt Macedonian day numbering conventions or even the Macedonian day. The fact that there were at least two of them means that spontaneous changes of format are not so surprising. However, I will also mention that I suspect that the Aelian fragment (and probably some of the others) was transmitted via an Olynthian pen.

Cordially,

Andrew
Yes, I was aware that both Eumenes and Dionysios were not Macedonian. IIRC, Hammond discusses this point in his Historia article, and, noting that Eumenes had other responsibilities by then, argues that the diarist at that time was Dionysios; I agree, but lets indicate uncertainty by calling him <Dionysios>.

What I was questioning was not Samuel's facts but his logic: <Dionysios> was not Macedonian, he used decad counting, which was (in Samuel's view) a non-Macedonian practice, and therefore he may not have used the Macedonian day (but still used Macedonian dates). Did he actually use decad counting? Is it in fact a non-Macedonian practice? Why would he, as court recorder, use a non-Macedonian day? If he did, why can we then trust the date?

You may feel comfortable with the idea that the court recorder used a day convention that was different from that of the court he was recording; it seems more than a little unprofessional to me.

The segments we have that claim to be explicit extracts cover such a brief and late period that they were almost certainly by one man -- for both the 24th and the 28th. Is <Dionysios> going to change his own dating convention 4 days apart? In any case, since Plutarch and Aelian use different formats for the 24th, it seems certain that at least one of them (or one of their intermediate source(s)) must have changed the original convention used for that date. I'm willing to go with Aelian being in error, but it does suggest that there was something about the source text which encouraged some uncertainty on the point.

In discussing the decad issue, Peter Fraser's review of Samuel's book pointed out there was at least one inscription from Alexandria that used a waning-moon-decad day count, in addition to the papyrus that Samuel noted and tried to dismiss, so there is good reason to doubt his argument that the use of decad counting is non-Macedonian. It is certainly very rare, and may be archaic, but aristocratic circles are usually a good place to find rare and archaic practices.

It's clear why Samuel needs to dismiss the day of the Ephemerides as non-Macedonian, because his analysis of the Zenon double dates convinced him that the Macedonian month was based on first lunar visibility and therefore (another non-sequitur) that their day was evening-based; the Ephemerides directly contradict this. My confidence in Samuel's reasoning is not enhanced by his bizarre argument, in his later paper on the Ephemerides, that they were actually derived from Babylonian sources -- when the Babylonians not only did not have the intimate access to Alexander required to produce such an account, but also certainly used both an evening-based day and certainly gave a different day number for Alexander's death. I have no way of knowing, but I would guess that Samuel wrote this paper in part because he was unhappy with his own earlier reasoning.

Although Hammond argues strongly to the contrary (I think he overdoes it), it may well be that Aelian and others may not have studied the Ephemerides directly but through the work on them (editions?) produced by Strattis of Olynthius. One curious point I have noted in the papers I have seen so far on the authenticity of the Ephemerides is that, in discussing Strattis, the debate has been about his lost 5-volume work on the Ephemerides. But, according to the Suda, Strattis also wrote a book on the death of Alexander. Considering the scope of the extracts we have, which are focussed on exactly this question, it seems to me that this work is a better candidate as their proximate source.

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Post by Taphoi »

I would certainly agree with you that Samuel's Babylonian sources for the Ephemerides idea does not make much sense. I would warn you also that Hammond's idea that Diodotus was Eumenes' successor is also fairly dubious. It is pretty much contradicted by Nepos and Hammond is wrong to suggest that there was any problem with Eumenes being both the Secretary and a Hipparch.

All the best,

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Post by amyntoros »

Taphoi wrote:"...his soldiers longed to see him..., because it was being put about that he was already dead and they suspected that his death was being concealed by the bodyguards [somatophylakon]" Arrian, Anabasis Alexandrou 7.26.1 (similarly Plutarch 76.4)

Looks like Alexander's army thought it both feasible and likely that the Bodyguards or the Companions/Friends would have concealed Alexander's death. Who are we to tell them they were wrong?

On the question of whether Aristoboulos was either a Bodyguard or a Friend, obviously not in the former case and improbable in the latter. The best approximation to a list of the Friends is the list of trierarchs in the Indica: Ptolemy, Nearchus, Medius and Onesicritus (as Alexander's helmsman) are all there, but there's no sign of Aristoboulos. Neither is he among the guests at Alexander's last party in the Liber de Morte. Jacoby's Testimony on him is fairly thin and almost all relates to his later fame as an author.
I really don't want to say the following because it may appear, based on previous arguments, that I'm being petty. It is, however, truly unavoidable. To suggest that Aristobulos was not privy to attend upon Alexander because he was not a Bodyguard, a Companion/Friend or a guest at the last party is, at best, an argument from silence. Look at the bigger picture, please. Just because other people are not mentioned does not mean that they weren't there, milling about the HUGE palace; in the hallways; even, at times, in Alexander's rooms. What about the other parties that Alexander attended during that last month? Aristobulos could have been a guest, along with any number of others not named - we know of parties for Alexander that had 70 guests and more. Were all these people suddenly, in the very last days, denied access to the palace and to Alexander and refused any information on Alexander's condition until the official pronouncement of his death? This while previously unmentioned people such as Holkias are reported in the Liber de Morte (which you believe to contain much factual information) to have been at Alexander's bedside! Seemingly, via this argument, the guests at the last party were afforded so much privilege that one could be forgiven for drawing parallels with the Last Supper!

Your scenario conjures up an image of a dying king secluded from everyone (not just the regular soldiers) except for the names mentioned in the few extant sources. (Who knows, btw, whether the lacuna in Curtius included the names of others who were with Alexander in his last days.) Do you think that declaring, in essence, that "these are the names we find in the surviving texts and therefore they must have been the only people with firsthand knowledge of the time of Alexander's death" is a scientific approach?

What's most interesting about this particular discussion is that in relegating Aristobulos to a lowly position you are negating some of your own prior arguments. When we debated in an earlier thread about Alexander attempting suicide, you told how Aristobulus reported that Alexander became delirious with a burning fever which was peaking during the night. In now excluding him from those who had intimate information about Alexander's last days you have reduced his information to that of hearsay. Simply put, if he wasn't there, he couldn't have reported on it first hand. If that's the case then surely itGÇÖs safe to assume that he got most of his own information from the Ephemerides, which would make the differing dates of Alexander's death an even greater curiousity.

For the record - and to prevent this debate from running round in circles - I also happen to believe that Ephemerides are genuine. I simply disagree with this particular argument as a means to explain away inconsistencies.

Best regards,
Amyntoros

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Post by Chris Bennett »

Taphoi wrote:I would certainly agree with you that Samuel's Babylonian sources for the Ephemerides idea does not make much sense. I would warn you also that Hammond's idea that Diodotus was Eumenes' successor is also fairly dubious. It is pretty much contradicted by Nepos and Hammond is wrong to suggest that there was any problem with Eumenes being both the Secretary and a Hipparch.

All the best,

Andrew
I see I consistently wrote "Dionysios". Beats me why. Of course I meant "Diodotus". But, for the points I was making, it really doesn't matter what his name was.

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Post by amyntoros »

dean wrote:"The month of Daisos had 29 days, (see Plutarch 16,2) and the contradiction is owing to the fact that Aristobulus going on the Greek custom took 7 OGÇÖclock in the afternoon as the beginning of the following day.GÇ¥
Hi Dean - and I should address this to Chris as well,

I was under the apparently mistaken impression that the entirety of the Greek world considered the new day to begin at nightfall so I'm following the discussion between Taphoi and Chris Bennett with much interest - and not a little confusion!

Chris's web pages on chronology and calendars are most impressive but very complicated for one such as myself. Now, I'd love to see a simpler explanation of the Macedonian calendar as it applied in Alexander's time. I don't think Pothos has a page on the calendar- a quick search of the site didn't bring anything up, anyway. I wonder if, when the dust has settled on this debate, we could persuade Chris to write such a page. :)

Yes, I know I'm being very pushy, especially with all the work he has to do on his own web pages. But it would be a really nice addition to Pothos, don't you think? :)

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Post by Chris Bennett »

amyntoros wrote: Chris's web pages on chronology and calendars are most impressive but very complicated for one such as myself. Now, I'd love to see a simpler explanation of the Macedonian calendar as it applied in Alexander's time. I don't think Pothos has a page on the calendar- a quick search of the site didn't bring anything up, anyway. I wonder if, when the dust has settled on this debate, we could persuade Chris to write such a page. :)
This is actually where I am trying to head, for my own site. I am trying to pull together some pages on the Macedonian calendar and its chronology, mostly as it affects Egypt, but it is necessary to consider it in Macedon. In fact I was writing up what I thought was some basic material when I realised that I found Samuel's arguments for an evening day pretty unconvincing (as are many of his other arguments, once you start to dig into them) and that I needed to understand the Ephemerides better than I did.

There is actually very little evidence for the Macedonian calendar in Argaed Macedon. Believe it or not, Dean quoted a large fraction of what there is. We have very good reason to believe that the calendar was originally lunar, and we know the names and the order of the months. We know something about the religious associations of some of the month names. We don't know how or how often intercalation was done, whether years started on 1 Dios or on the anniversary of the king's accession (both are argued), whether Alexander's insertion of an embolimos day at Tyre was an unusual event or common practice, and so on.

As I mentioned earlier, we have only one calendar synchronism from before Alexander's reign, and even that is generally considered to come from a forged document and to be unreliable. In fact, the date of Alexander's death is the earliest precisely fixed Macedonian date we have, although Grzybek developed an argument that we have an indirect Macedonian date for Gaugamela.

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Post by marcus »

amyntoros wrote: I don't think Pothos has a page on the calendar- a quick search of the site didn't bring anything up, anyway. I wonder if, when the dust has settled on this debate, we could persuade Chris to write such a page. :)

Yes, I know I'm being very pushy, especially with all the work he has to do on his own web pages. But it would be a really nice addition to Pothos, don't you think? :)
It would indeed be a nice addition, not least because I, too, get very confused about the calendars (maybe I don't have a logical enough mind?).

So if anyone *does* wish to write us a piece, then I'm sure everyone would be grateful. Waldemar Heckel recently (in his latest Osprey title) referred to Pothos as one of the two most comprehensive Alexander websites (Tim Spalding's Isidore of Seville being the other), so it would be nice to live up to the expectation.

I can add any articles that people want to throw my way ...

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Gaugamela and the lunar eclipse

Post by dean »

Hello,
Talking about dates some thing that I found interesting was..

I remember reading somewhere on the forum, think it was Nick who mentioned it,(a good long while ago) that the only date we have for sure when it comes to studies on Alexander, was the date for Gaugamela and that was, if I remember correctly because of the Babylonian astronomical diaries- in conjunction with the Lunar eclipse.

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Post by amyntoros »

Chris Bennett wrote:In fact I was writing up what I thought was some basic material when I realised that I found Samuel's arguments for an evening day pretty unconvincing (as are many of his other arguments, once you start to dig into them) and that I needed to understand the Ephemerides better than I did.


I know now why I thought that the whole of the Greek world considered nightfall to be the beginning of the day. It's in Robert Garland's article, Countdown to the Beginning of Timekeeping, History Today April 1999:
It was the Romans who chose midnight as the transition between one day and the next, though they had no way of calculating when that moment occurred. In the Greek World, by contrast, the calendar day began at moonrise.
I'd happily accept that the Macedonians might have had a different system but it would have been an exception in the Greek world, therefore I'm most curious to know how this can be interpreted from the sources. Let's say a Greek or Macedonian was writing about the 26th of Dios, for example, and the Macedonian day DID start at moonrise. If he wrote "during the night of the 26th" or "on the night of the 26th" wouldn't that mean anytime from evening of the 25th through to dawn on the 26th by our calculations - because when night fell on the 26th that would have been the beginning of the 27th?

So, how would a writer in Roman times have interpreted such dates, if he was, let's say, reading from the Ephemerides or an older Greek work that quoted the Ephemerides? Plutarch lived in Greece under Roman rule, so wouldn't the calendar and dating system he was accustomed to have been a Roman one? Even if not - although I tend to think it must have been so - Aelian wrote in Rome so he surely considered the day to begin at midnight. So what did they think when they read records taken from the Ephemerides? Aelian says that "On the fifth of the month of Dius he was drinking with Eumaeus, they say; then on the sixth he slept because of the amount he had drunk." If we were interpreting a Greek calendar system which said Alexander was drinking on the fifth of the month, then by our reckoning (because he most likely would have begun drinking in the evening) it would have been the evening of the fourth. And the next day,which he slept through, was actually the day of the fifth? Aaack! Am I making any sense or am I just making everything more confusing? :roll:

OTH, if the Macedonian day didn't begin at sunset, how can we tell? Must say, I find all this absolutely fascinating.

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Greek and Macedonian days

Post by Chris Bennett »

amyntoros wrote:
I know now why I thought that the whole of the Greek world considered nightfall to be the beginning of the day. It's in Robert Garland's article, Countdown to the Beginning of Timekeeping, History Today April 1999:
It was the Romans who chose midnight as the transition between one day and the next, though they had no way of calculating when that moment occurred. In the Greek World, by contrast, the calendar day began at moonrise.
Moonrise???? :o Surely he means sunset. Moonrise can happen at any time of the day or night depending on the phase of the moon. I think he is confusing days and months. To the extent that Greek months were lunar, the evidence is that they were based on the first moonrise of the new crescent moon. The Babylonians did it the same way, while the Egyptians based their lunar (temple) month on the invisibility of the old crescent moon at sunrise.

Greek calendrics is a nightmare. Each Greek city or region had its own sequence of months, and its own convention for marking the start of the year. Years were counted eponymously (e.g. by the name of the Athenian archon), and since we don't have a list of eponyms it is often impossible to assign a fully dated inscription to a particular year, or at least a matter of endless controversy. While months were usually lunar in principle, you could, at least in some calendars, insert intercalary days and remove days whenever there was a need, as Alexander did at Tyre. Athenian months seem to have been particularly elastic. We have an inscription dated to the 8th intercalary repetition of a certain day in Elaphobolion. Also, it was necessary to insert intercalary months from time to time in order to keep the year aligned to the sun, but again the Athenian evidence is that intercalation could be done after any month. A good recent account that is not highly technnical is Robert Hannah, "Greek and Roman Calendars: Construction of Time in the Ancient World" (Duckworth, 2005).

There are a few explicit ancient statements about the start of the day, e.g. Pliny, NH 2.79 "The days have been computed by different people in different ways. The Babylonians reckoned from one sunrise to the next; the Athenians from one sunset to the next; the Umbrians from noon to noon; the multitude, universally, from light to darkness; the Roman priests and those who presided over the civil day, also the Egyptians, and Hipparchus, from midnight to midnight." Otherwise, the ancient evidence mostly comes from astronomical/astrological sources, like the Almagest. The trouble with these is that they are very specialised texts, and they require careful interpretation. E.g. Pliny's statement that the "Egyptians" based their day on midnight is only true if you consider the "Egyptians" to be Alexandrian astronomers, but Egyptian evidence otherwise indicates a day starting at dawn or sunrise. Despite Pliny (who ought to have known) Egyptian horoscopes with Roman dates require the Roman day to begin at dusk. Likewise, the Babylonian evidence from the astronomical diaries clearly shows a sunset-based day, but Pliny says they began their day at sunrise.

This problem of the start of the day in ancient times was studied by Bilfinger in the 19th century. The Ephemerides are one of a very small set of non-astronomical documents that give a sequence of day and night events organised by date, and they show that day came before night on any given date. For Bilfinger this was conclusive evidence that the Macedonian day began at dawn. On the other hand, the "Chaldean" observations in the Almagest, which have Macedonian dates, have months which begin on the same (Julian) day as first crescent visbility, which seems to prove that the Macedonian day in Babylon began at sunset (but, this could be adaptation to the Babylonian day, there are only three samples, and they are technical texts).

The Egyptian evidence comes from double-dated papyri, and is quite noisy, but does seem to favour a month based on first visibility. Although the data is clearly not good enough to prove this one way or the other, Samuel leapt to the conclusion that the Macedonian day in Egypt must also therefore begin in the evening (instead of, say, the following dawn). However, since this is not native Egyptian practice, it could only be explained as perpetuation of original Macedonian practice. Hence his need to explain away the Ephemerides as non-Macedonian practice.
amyntoros wrote:I'd happily accept that the Macedonians might have had a different system but it would have been an exception in the Greek world, therefore I'm most curious to know how this can be interpreted from the sources. Let's say a Greek or Macedonian was writing about the 26th of Dios, for example, and the Macedonian day DID start at moonrise. If he wrote "during the night of the 26th" or "on the night of the 26th" wouldn't that mean anytime from evening of the 25th through to dawn on the 26th by our calculations - because when night fell on the 26th that would have been the beginning of the 27th?
Yes, but it only causes confusion if you are trying to map it to a day that starts at a different time, something you only do if you were trying to be extremely precise about it, which most ancient authors were not. However, this is a big deal for modern scholars. Students of the Macedonian calendar in Egypt frequently resort to the supposed phase mismatch between Egyptian and Macedonian days as a way of correlating double-dated documents to their preferred calendrical reconstruction. My own opinion is that they are mostly trying to make the evidence more precise that it warrants.

Again the Ephemerides are an example of this. They date Alexander's death to 28 Daisios, but Aristoboulos dates it to 30 Daisios. Now, the last day of the month was usually called the 30th regardless of whether it had 29 days or 30. Knowing that the Ephemerides used dawn-based days, you can reconcile these dates within the same definition of the calendar month by supposing that Aristoboulos used dusk-based days, so that his month started, in effect, 12 hours before that of the Ephemerides, but both were based on the same observation of the first crescent moon. That is in fact how the two dates used to be reconciled, until recently. But this explanation only works if Alexander died at night.
amyntoros wrote:So, how would a writer in Roman times have interpreted such dates, if he was, let's say, reading from the Ephemerides or an older Greek work that quoted the Ephemerides? Plutarch lived in Greece under Roman rule, so wouldn't the calendar and dating system he was accustomed to have been a Roman one? Even if not - although I tend to think it must have been so - Aelian wrote in Rome so he surely considered the day to begin at midnight. So what did they think when they read records taken from the Ephemerides? Aelian says that "On the fifth of the month of Dius he was drinking with Eumaeus, they say; then on the sixth he slept because of the amount he had drunk." If we were interpreting a Greek calendar system which said Alexander was drinking on the fifth of the month, then by our reckoning (because he most likely would have begun drinking in the evening) it would have been the evening of the fourth. And the "next day", which he slept through, was actually the day of the fifth? Aaack! Am I making any sense or am I just making everything more confusing? :roll:
No, its confusing all right. Plutarch was a Greek, from Boeotia, and living in Delphi. He seems to have largely treated Greek and (pre-Julian) Roman dates as though they were strictly lunar,whether they were or not. We have an explicit statement from him (in Roman Questions 24) that he regarded the Kalends, Nones and Ides of pre-Julian Roman dates as though they actually represented the new moon, first quarter and full moon; he regarded it as approximation that was "close enough". Whenever he makes a statement about the lunar phase of a pre-Julian Roman date, it matches this principle.

The same thing happens with Greek dates. Take the example of Gaugamela, which Plutarch dates to 26 Boedromion. In the late fourth century the Athenian calendar was particularly elastic. There is no way that an Athenian at Gaugamela could possibly have known the actual date in Athens, since it depended on local and arbitrary decisions made by the archon, possibly day-to-day and certainly not much more than a few days in advance. Even a few weeks or months later, by the time the news reached Athens, it would very likely have taken a complicated retrocalculation to figure it out. However, in the second and first centuries BC the Athenian calendar became more closely regulated by the moon -- we have dates which are "according to the archon" (variable) or "according to the moon (or the god)" (aligned). What Plutarch (or his source) could have known is that Gaugamela happened 11 days after a lunar eclipse, and, quite possibly, that there was a lunar eclipse in Boedromion of that year. For Plutarch lunar eclipse = full moon = 15th day of the month, hence the date of Gaugamela was 15+11 = 26 Boedromion.

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Re: Gaugamela and the lunar eclipse

Post by Chris Bennett »

dean wrote:Hello,
Talking about dates some thing that I found interesting was..

I remember reading somewhere on the forum, think it was Nick who mentioned it,(a good long while ago) that the only date we have for sure when it comes to studies on Alexander, was the date for Gaugamela and that was, if I remember correctly because of the Babylonian astronomical diaries- in conjunction with the Lunar eclipse.

Best regards,
Dean
The other one is the date of his death, also because of the Babylonian astronomical diaries. But, yes, we only have those two events which are precisely dated on our calendar.

Chris
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