Philip's Plans After Liberating Asia Minor: An Alt. History

Discuss Philip's achievements and Macedonia pre-Alexander

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Paralus
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Post by Paralus »

Fiona wrote:That would be after he learned to get from one couch to the next, would it...
Alex went to"school" on the old man. He'd worked out, by Maracanda, that the shortest distance between two couches was a sarisa...
Paralus
Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους;
Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.

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the_accursed
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Post by the_accursed »

Paralus wrote:
the_accursed wrote: He would have moved (fled) to Epirus, become an alcoholic, and at the age 25 or so - around the time Philip had begun to conquer the west (still without Alexander) he would have killed himself.
A role model for that brilliant condottieri Demetrius Poliorcetes then?
Something like that. But I think Alexander would eventually have chosen suicide. And Demetrius, while not a great human being either, was at least a very capable commander. Alexander would have been nothing.

I think he'd have walked around in Epirus, going from town to town, drunk and friendless, and talked to any stranger willing (or not) to listen about the "omens", and about the great things he'd accomplish "one day" (according to these "omens"). "You'll see! Just you wait! I'll show you!! I'll show you all!!!" He'd have been the village idiot. A clown-like distortion of Philip in flesh and blood. And every once in a while, news would have reached him about Philip's successes, which would have deepened his depression (he was "melancholy mad", after all). And I think it would have been on one of those occasions that he would have killed himself - my guess is through hanging. It would probably have been days until someone would have even bothered to cut him down.
Fiona wrote:
the_accursed wrote:I think Philip would have conquered all of the Persian empire, and he would have done it a lot faster than Alexander did.
That would be after he learned to get from one couch to the next, would it...
:wink:
Fiona
But then, what Philip did in that one party, Alexander would have spent the rest of his life doing. Not to worry though: he'd still have died young (if not through suicide, then probably by drowning in his own vomit), and so there would still have been much for those who love him to admire.
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Post by the_accursed »

athenas owl wrote:
the_accursed wrote:I think Philip would have conquered all of the Persian empire, and he would have done it a lot faster than Alexander did. It would have taken him no more than two or three years, and only two battles to defeat (and kill) Darius. After a couple of years of consolidation, he would have gone west. What else was he supposed to do with the rest of his life? He would not have "orientalised", though. No Persian soldiers in Philip's army, nor would he have married any Persian women. Philip would have spent his 56th birthday back in Pella as the (undefeated) ruler of everything from Gaul to Hindu Kush, and would today be known as the greatest king, warrior, military commander and conqueror of all time.

Alexander? After Chaeronea, he would never have fought in another battle. He would have moved (fled) to Epirus, become an alcoholic, and at the age 25 or so - around the time Philip had begun to conquer the west (still without Alexander) he would have killed himself. Philip would not have missed him (as Alexander would no longer have been his heir), and today, his name would barely ever be mentioned.
Oh I have to disagree, I think Philip would have married a Persian princess tout de suite, and any noble woman with political connections whose path he crossed if he went all the way to India. (Take that Olympias! :lol: )...he married an Illyrian, a Thessalonian and if memory serves he married a Thracian woman as well. I can't imagine, that if he found himself in the mess that was Upper Iran, he wouldn't have waited two years to marry into the local nobility. He might rather have enjoyed the whole harem system as well.

And really, I think the Persian influence was already strong in Macedonia, a land with nobles who enjoyed the finer things. Artabazus and the other Persian exiles being perhaps the latest. Alexander was not a schmoozer, Philip could do that much better. Here, too, I wonder if Artabazus and his extended clan might not have gone over sooner if it had been Philip and not the child become man, Alexander, that he had known in exile. Though, perhaps there was a kinship tie to Darius we don't fully understand for Artabazus' loyalty. It isn't like Artabazus was above a rebellion against a Persian great king... :D

This of course presumes that Philip wouldn't be knocked off by Alexander, Olympias or who the heck else that we don't have a clearer picture of...Amyntas iv for example.


Maybe you're right. But in that case, I think he would have tried to avoid fathering any half Persian children. I think such a child would have complicated things too much.
You really think poorly of ATG I can see.
I think he was one of the least capable kings Macedonia ever produced. But he was probably good at killing.
athenas owl
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Post by athenas owl »

the_accursed wrote:
athenas owl wrote:
the_accursed wrote:I think Philip would have conquered all of the Persian empire, and he would have done it a lot faster than Alexander did. It would have taken him no more than two or three years, and only two battles to defeat (and kill) Darius. After a couple of years of consolidation, he would have gone west. What else was he supposed to do with the rest of his life? He would not have "orientalised", though. No Persian soldiers in Philip's army, nor would he have married any Persian women. Philip would have spent his 56th birthday back in Pella as the (undefeated) ruler of everything from Gaul to Hindu Kush, and would today be known as the greatest king, warrior, military commander and conqueror of all time.

Alexander? After Chaeronea, he would never have fought in another battle. He would have moved (fled) to Epirus, become an alcoholic, and at the age 25 or so - around the time Philip had begun to conquer the west (still without Alexander) he would have killed himself. Philip would not have missed him (as Alexander would no longer have been his heir), and today, his name would barely ever be mentioned.
Oh I have to disagree, I think Philip would have married a Persian princess tout de suite, and any noble woman with political connections whose path he crossed if he went all the way to India. (Take that Olympias! :lol: )...he married an Illyrian, a Thessalonian and if memory serves he married a Thracian woman as well. I can't imagine, that if he found himself in the mess that was Upper Iran, he wouldn't have waited two years to marry into the local nobility. He might rather have enjoyed the whole harem system as well.

And really, I think the Persian influence was already strong in Macedonia, a land with nobles who enjoyed the finer things. Artabazus and the other Persian exiles being perhaps the latest. Alexander was not a schmoozer, Philip could do that much better. Here, too, I wonder if Artabazus and his extended clan might not have gone over sooner if it had been Philip and not the child become man, Alexander, that he had known in exile. Though, perhaps there was a kinship tie to Darius we don't fully understand for Artabazus' loyalty. It isn't like Artabazus was above a rebellion against a Persian great king... :D

This of course presumes that Philip wouldn't be knocked off by Alexander, Olympias or who the heck else that we don't have a clearer picture of...Amyntas iv for example.


Maybe you're right. But in that case, I think he would have tried to avoid fathering any half Persian children. I think such a child would have complicated things too much.
You really think poorly of ATG I can see.
I think he was one of the least capable kings Macedonia ever produced. But he was probably good at killing.
Because we know so much about the kings of Macedonia...he did manage to die in bed, a feat no other had for a very, very long time. Not that that was something he actually wanted. :wink:

Pyrrhus of Epirus might be a model for what the young disinherited Alexander might have done. Perhaps he would have gone to his Illyrian cousins (if indeed his grandmother was Illyrian) or allied with Amyntas iv and the Lycestrians. Or as you suggest, to Eprius...

How different were the Macedonians from their Greek (or fellow Greek if that sounds better to some) and Roman biographers? I am very interested in the real culture of Macedonia at the time. Sometimes I think folks see it through an Athenian lens..which does not do justice to the Macedonians. Like the white statues we grew up with, only to find that they were bright and garish even...

Demosthenes called and said to tell you that you are being too harsh on Alexander. :lol:
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marcus
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Post by marcus »

Paralus wrote:
marcus wrote:However, one still has to wonder how long it would have been before Alexander had Philip murdered ...
He did in the real world...didn't he??!!
:lol:

No, but seriously ... :shock:

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