Historian Nicholas Hammond

Discuss Philip's achievements and Macedonia pre-Alexander

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Dimitrios Polirketes

Historian Nicholas Hammond

Post by Dimitrios Polirketes »

. G. L. Hammond states:What language did these `Macedones' speak? The name itself is Greek in root and in ethnic termination. It probably means `highlanders', and it is comparable to Greek tribal names such as `Orestai' and `Oreitai', mean-¡ing 'mountain-men'. A reputedly earlier variant, `Maketai', has the same root, which means `high', as in the Greek adjective makednos or the noun mekos. The genealogy of eponymous ancestors which Hesiod recorded [GǪ] has a bearing on the question of Greek speech. First, Hesiod made Macedon a brother of Magnes; as we know from inscrip-¡tions that the Magnetes spoke the Aeolic dialect of the Greek language, we have a predisposition to suppose that the Macedones spoke the Aeolic dialect. Secondly, Hesiod made Macedon and Magnes first cousins of Hellen's three sons - Dorus, Xouthus, and Aeolus-who were the found-¡ers of three dialects of Greek speech, namely Doric, Ionic, and Aeolic. Hesiod would not have recorded this relationship, unless he had believed, probably in the seventh century bc, that the Macedones were a Greek-¡ speaking people. The next evidence comes from Persia. At the turn of the sixth century the Persians described the tribute-paying peoples of their province in Europe, and one of them was the `yauna takabara', which meant `Greeks wearing the hat'. There were Greeks in Greek city-states here and there in the province, but they were of various origins and not distinguished by a common hat. However, the Macedonians wore a dis-¡tinctive hat, the kausia. We conclude that the Persians believed the Macedonians to be speakers of Greek. Finally, in the latter part of the fifth century a Greek historian, Hellanicus, visited Macedonia and modi-¡fied Hesiod's genealogy by making Macedon not a cousin, but a son of Aeolus, thus bringing Macedon and his descendants firmly into the Aeolic branch of the Greek-speaking family. Hesiod, Persia, and Hellanicus had no motive for making a false statement about the language of the Macedonians, who were then an obscure and not a powerful people. Their independent testimonies should be accepted as conclusive (N.G.L. Hammond, The Macedonian State, p.12-13).
THE LIGHT 7000

Re: MAKEDONIA

Post by THE LIGHT 7000 »

Dear friend,... because of many things, somhow Greeks succided to falsify everything re: Makedonia, expeling Makedonians, and rearanging everything re:Makedonia!The biggest issue that is rising here, and is very well elaborated, is how long is taking one tribe to evolve from tribial chiefdom to state/ kingdom! So according to all investigations, is taking approx. 1000 y., for tribes to come to state/ kingdom, with all knowledge about them selfs, common language, market, millitary/ defance force, tax, educational system, justice system, infrastructure etc. So, if ancestors of today Hellens/Greeks, came to Makedonian land in about 15 c. b.c.,(or were brought from Africa by Egiptians from various geostrategic purposes, and some from Persia for same reason), there is no way they succsided to build such states/kingodoms, not to mention civilisations!......... The newest scientific evidence are showing that great migrations were from Africa via today Israel and Syria towards Arabia. Those from Europe went trough Persia, China, Siberia to Nth. America and later Sth. America. There is absolutely no clear evidence what so ever that migration from Africa ended in Europe nor America. Those from Africa were heading and settled in Arabia, Arab peninsula! So this is hand in hand with latest discovery about origin of Mediteranian people incl. Makedonians and Greeks themselfs. Greek DNA shown Subsaharian origin, and Makedonian Europian/ Mediteranian characteristic's! ... Going back to main issue,let me say this, from 15 c. to 7-8 c. bc, there are aprox. 7-8 centuries. So we are expecting that so called Hellens/Greeks, at that time, to be on/at evolutionary level of tribial city states, and later developments, with developments of tribal city states, is strong proof of this. So if you add 4 centuries extra, you will find amaizingly interesting things re: ancient Hellens/Greeks, that at that stage they were creating leagues, i.e. conglomerat of more city states in one! Makedonian Kings use by force to unite Hellens in federation, some kind of one state, and it was mainly due to geostrategic purposes of upcomming wars with Persia etc. Even than, Hellenic sity states, i.e. Hellens were not able to understund what does it means to be in one state- Kingdom, until 1827 with formation of Greece as a nation state Sth. of Mt. Olymp. So according to all scientific evidence, there is no way that so called Greeks were those builders of great Makedonian Kingdom nor any ci
THE LIGHT 7000

Re: MAKEDONIA-cont.

Post by THE LIGHT 7000 »

cont.
... Going back to main issue,let me say this, from 15 c. to 7-8 c. bc, there are aprox. 7-8 centuries. So we are expecting that so called Hellens/Greeks, at that time, to be on/at evolutionary level of tribial city states, and later developments, with developments of tribal city states, is strong proof of this. So if you add 4 centuries extra, you will find amaizingly interesting things re: ancient Hellens/Greeks, that at that stage they were creating leagues, i.e. conglomerat of more city states in one! Makedonian Kings use by force to unite Hellens in federation, some kind of one state, and it was mainly due to geostrategic purposes of upcomming wars with Persia etc. Even than, Hellenic sity states, i.e. Hellens were not able to understund what does it means to be in one state- Kingdom, until 1827 with formation of Greece as a nation state Sth. of Mt. Olymp. So according to all scientific evidence, there is no way that so called Greeks were those builders of great Makedonian Kingdom nor any civilisation before it! The fact is that they missused all knowledge, with falsifaying things, almost everything even Bible, so one can find term Greece even in Bible, (which is talking by itself how intense was/is this lobby which is fading), they are talking now being themselfs what were once biggest Greek enemies- Makedonia and Makedonians, even gave them all! Paradox par exelence!...Good example of this falsificats is Pitagora and this rules in mathematics, which were known for thowsands of years in Persia and even China, so this was like discovering America for them,- 100 time's repeated lies, one day are truth! Same is with some very respected scientists from that time- Makedonians, like Aristotle etc., renaming them to be Greeks?!......What ever you are saying, maybe is right for your view point, but peoples are more indipendent now so they have voice to speak about themselfs now!So how is possible one to take in account all this "authors" who are pro-greek, but to make "circus" with all who are more libarate and are talking more independent facts, which again, maybe will cahge with time with more and more investigations comming up...World is changing!... This is nothing to do with denying all Greek/Hellenic cultural heritage and identity, like you are doing with all, but is just to make you aware how far you could go with childish statments, because everything is so mixed up, that will take some time to get over it, but with cool aproach
THE LIGHT 7000

Re: MAKEDONIA-cont.

Post by THE LIGHT 7000 »

cont.
...What ever you are saying, maybe is right for your view point, but peoples are more indipendent now so they have voice to speak about themselfs now!So how is possible one to take in account all this "authors" who are pro-greek, but to make "circus" with all who are more libarate and are talking more independent facts, which again, maybe will cahge with time with more and more investigations comming up...World is changing!... This is nothing to do with denying all Greek/Hellenic cultural heritage and identity, like you are doing with all, but is just to make you aware how far you could go with childish statments, because everything is so mixed up, that will take some time to get over it, but with cool aproach and respect to/for all, and this is not a way that you, and somone like you are promoting unfortunately and sad...! The Light 7000
Demetrios Poliorketes

Re: MAKEDONIA

Post by Demetrios Poliorketes »

Vaso your obviously so brainwashed by Tito's propaganda that you have lost touch with reality.First of all Greeks are an indoeuropean people so it would be impossible for them to have come from Africa.That Ethiopian study is bs I have already posted the fact that the study was rejected on scientific merit.IndoEuropean Greeks entered the Hellenic pennisula around 2500 and were primarily of the Alpine branch of the caucasian race.The first archeological evidence of of Greek speaking people occurs in present day Epirus Thessally and macedonia in the area of Olympus and from that area some Greek tribes began to move south .The Mycenean civilization is the 1st organized society in the Peloponese.The shaft graves at mycenae reflect a very caucasian indoeuropean warlike people who spoke the earliest diolect of Greek.By langauage race and custom they were undoubtably indo european and had nothing to due with africa.They imposed there will on earlier non Greek populations via sword.The Greek speaking people who stayed in north were referred to as the Makedon ethos.Later waves of the makedons began to move south and they aquired the name Dorians from there stay in dyrois in central Greece .The name Hellas is associated with Dorian invasions see Herodutus.Dorian Greeks subjectagted earlier Mycenean Greeks or became absorbed into the upper ranks of there society.The Macedonian Greeks were the remenants of the earliest Greek speaking people who remained in the area around Olympus.These northern Greeks were the ancestors of the Macedonians Thessalians and Epirotis.When you make statements such as Greeks came from Ethiopia it shows you have never read a history from a credible source.Virtually every historian agrees that Greeks were an Indoeuropean people and that Greek is an Indoeuropean language.
When you make statements such as the name Demitrios is Turkish when the name Dimitrios was the name of Greek Macedonian Kings you show your lack of basic knowlege.BTW the name Poliorketes is also associated with Macedonian history.You obviously have very minimal knowlege of Macedonian history because if you did you would know that Demetrios Poliorketes was a Greek Macedonian KingHistory of Macedon - Demetrios Poliorketes ( 294 - 288 BC) http://www.ancientcash.com/page-3/macedon-title-7.html The fact that you claimed my Screen Name was Turkish when in fact it was the name of a Macedonian King proves you have minimal knowlege of ancient Macedonian history and s
THE LIGHT 7000

Re: MAKEDONIA

Post by THE LIGHT 7000 »

FIRSTLY:
DEMIROS=DEMIR....=TURKISH IRON...,THAT IS WRITTEN, YOU ARE MIXING THINGS WITH
DEMETRIUS=DIMITRIUS=DIMITRI....,
SO WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT ARE YOU,= BILLEREM TURCHE!, ME= BIRAS (I UNDERSTUND, BECOUSE MY BEST FRIENDS ARE TURKS, ROMA/GIPSY PEOPLE, VLACHS, AND I AM PROUD OF THAT BECOUSE THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHO ARE THEY,...)!SECONDLY, HA HA ..., NOW GREEKS CAME FROM THE ALPS, FROM AUSTRIA HA HA ..., THAT WILL MAKE MY DAY !THIRDLY: TODAY GREEK LANGUAGE HAS NOTHING IN COMMON WITH ANY SORT OF INDO EUROPIAN LANAGUAGES WHAT SO EVER, AND IS "APENDIX" IN ALL OF THEM, ABSOLUTELY ALL OF THE. (YOU MISSED THE TOPIC!). ON THE CONTRARY MAKEDONIAN LANGUAGE IS ALMOST BASE IN ALL INDOEUROPIAN LANGUAGES, AND THAT IS FACT !!!FORHTLY: IF TODAY GREEK LANGUAGE IS NOTHING IN COMMON WITH ABSOLUTELY NO OTHER LANGUAGE IN THE WORLD, NOT ONLY INDOEUROPIAN BRANCH, AND YOU ARE SAYING OPPOSITE, ACCORDING TO YOUR STATMENT GREEK IS INDOEUROPIAN, BUT IS NOT, SO FROM WHERE ARE ALL THOSE "GREEKS"CAME, IF NOT FROM AFRICA AND SOME OF THEM ASIA, THAN ONLY EXPLANATION IS MARS!!!READ YOUR ENTRY BECOUSE IS CONTRADICTORY TO ALL WHAT YOU SAID, AND TO YOURSELF, MY FRIEND,ALL THE BEST- THE LIGHT 7000
bill giannakos

Re: MAKEDONIA

Post by bill giannakos »

Dear dr Vas let him know tha dimtri is fro dimitir the godess of earth and Hades dimitra.
greadings
THE LIGHT 7000

Re: MAKEDONIA

Post by THE LIGHT 7000 »

Yes my friend,
... I could start with explanations,...But than I have to waste time in explanation about Indo-Europian connection here with Godd/ess MITRA from Hindu,... what about that, and again about Sanskrit=Samskrit i.e One hiden for himself in Makedonian, or Vedi= Vedi (izvedi), like chickens is laying eggs in Makedonian, than Buddha=Budya=Budi= Awakening..., so we could witness Greeks comming from Mt. Evers not Austria-Alps, or was it Switzerland... probalbly prepearing for Winter Olympic games..., too much for now...
The Light 7000
yiannis
Hetairos (companion)
Posts: 543
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2002 3:22 am

Re: MAKEDONIA

Post by yiannis »

Vasko, you're immensely ignorant (good manners disallow me to write something else).
The Alpine genetical type has nothing to do with the Alps or Austria. In the first place, the geographical extent of the Alpine racial type is enormous, reaching from France to China.
The morphological types of the Greeks are identified as: Classic Mediterranean, Nordic-Iranian, Dinaric-Mediterranean and Alpine.Modern Greek language is amazingly close to the ancient Greek, more similar than any other language is close to its form spoken 3000 years ago.Please, educate yourself before you post.
I'm embarrassed to even reply to your postings!
THE LIGHT 7000

Re: MAKEDONIA

Post by THE LIGHT 7000 »

Kirios Yannis K,Yassu File,Long time no hear you... , and with every entry you are more and more contradictory to yourself! Why!?
Wll my friend, for this topic you should have great-huge team of experts to "reply" with some weight for serious consideration, otherwise, onether brick in the wall...- yes, Pink Floyd, they have very good songs, and one of them very well known to you- Money, yes now in :"Italian Job" movie!Saying, that you are more end more contraversy to youselfs, is with the fact that antropology of mediteranian people is astronomiclly different from Alpine/ North/Mountain people my friend. So going in unknown field for you is boomerang, so be what you are and let other to be what they are! That is why you need huge team of experts to prove just a bit,...By the way, to conclude Indo-Europian connection, =PRANA in Makedonian means WASHED, CLEAN/PURE CLEAN, in the context of previous entry, PRANA means PURE CLEAN "WASHED" ENERGY, base of everything. WASHED should be considered as a re-washed, i.e. re-incarnate! This is the biggest problem with Buddhisam and Chritianity- interpretation of same, i.e. in Christianity there is incarnate word or simular, GOD is always there ONE and there is incarnation, and /but in Buddhism is re-incarnation... So, there are connections but also missinterpretations, even thougt there are some statments that Chrisitianity is recognising somehow reincarnation, pointing that Christ answering to a question, ...where was St. Eliah (ILIA-ILION>>), he apparently reply showing on St. John etc., Yes, very very sensitive topic, so it should be left to experts!>), he apparently reply showing on St. John etc., Yes, very very sensitive topic, so it should be left to experts!>), he apparently reply showing on St. John etc., Yes, very very sensitive topic, so it should be left to experts!), he apparently reply showing on St. John etc., Yes, very very sensitive topic, so it should be left to experts!), he apparently reply showing on St. John etc., Yes, very very sensitive topic, so it should be left to experts!...So taking all aspects in consideration, incl. antropology my friend, I should be one who spouse to say to you what you are writing about me, but people are same and I have respect for all, even for my
"enemies", yes my friend, that is why I do not have enemies, only friends like you, and I will be always with you, does not matter how abusive one is, I will be with you/he/she, until the end of times, each and every individual time...
The Light 7000
THE LIGHT 7000

Re: RE:YANNIS-K-PS-MAKEDONIA

Post by THE LIGHT 7000 »

-PS
Dear yannis K,With telling everyone about greek from France,than Dalmatia/Croatia i.e. Dinnara region, end who knows where, talking about Greek race... , well my friend i am asking my self why was all the trouble with URL re: DNA, and what is this now,... But before I am going, please show respect to honnest Greeks, check with linguists all around the world,(there is no simular language in the world my friend to Greek, is alpone...), antropologists (Greeks were and are samller than peole from Nth...even you are reading that from ancient times),... and few other things, and let the peole talk Alexander Makedonski and MAKEDONIA ...,so it would be clear to you why Hunza people has language BURSUSKI... I wish you all the best to you and your co.With kind regards The Light 7000
jorgios
Pezhetairos (foot soldier)
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 10:38 am

vasko.

Post by jorgios »

i dont like to comment on such subjects, but i am always tempted.
about greeks being of "another race", the people of your country and greeks are almost indistinguishable. racially we are both an almost 50/50 mix of alpine race(round head, medium stature) and mediteranean race(long head, narrow features). it is true that the people of the north of your country have a slighter tendency towards nordism, probably from nordic slavic invasions in the 6th century.
you can comment if you want, but id rather we get back to discussing alexander.
Lazar

Re: MAKEDONIA

Post by Lazar »

About your name Demir or who ever you are.
First you have signed yourself as DIMIRIOS, now as a DEMETRIOS, which clearly shows your historic character for false propaganda. Don't be affraid you people, nobody will bite you if you state your own ORIGINAL NAME.

Lazar
panos
Pezhetairos (foot soldier)
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:32 am

Hi Vasko!!!!!!

Post by panos »

Hey VaskoHow are you?Still no response to my statements. I hope it is because you cannot find the time in your busy schedule.
A question: could you please define the criteria for identifying a language as indoeuropean?Regards
PanosP.S.
If you find the time please respond to my other questions too..... Thanks!!!!!!
DimitriosPolirketes

Re: MAKEDONIA

Post by DimitriosPolirketes »

Vas -First of all it quite obvious you have very little knowlege of the historical and anthropological facts. The term Alpine Race is an anthropological term to describe caucasians that are broad skulled stocky ect.The term Alpine is used because this type is most common in central europe.Anthropology From the Book Races of Europe Dr Carleton Coon
It is inaccurate to say that the modern Greeks are different physically from the ancient Greeks; such a statement is based on an ignorance of the Greek ethnic character.... The Greeks, in short, are a blend of racial types, of which two are most important: the Atlanto-Mediterranean and the Alpine. Dinaricism here is present, but not all pervading; true Alpines are commoner than complete Dinarics. The Nordic element is weak, as it probably has been since the days of Homer. The racial type to which Socrates belonged is today-Alpine- the most important, while the Atlanto-Mediterranean, prominent in Greece since the Bronze Age, is still a major factor. It is my personal reaction to the living Greeks that their continuity with their ancestors of the ancient world is remarkable, rather than the opposite.
(Carleton S. Coon, The Races of Europe No race in the world is pure(this includes Greeks and every other race) but there is evidence of genetic continuity in Greece as there is virtually everywhere in europe. To state Greeks came from africa is absurd and any
historian will tell you otherwise. Greek is an IndoEuropean Language -If you do not acknowlege this fact there is no use having a diologue since it is undesputable.http://www.ship.edu/~cgboeree/indoeuropean.html It is one thing to have a difference of opinion based on facts but it is another thing to make absurd statements such as Greeks are from Africa and that Greek is not an Indoeuropean language when virtually every linguist in the world agrees that it is.
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