Sword types

[Yiannis]

I'd like to add to the discussion the topic of sword types in ancient armies. Especially Persian, Macedonian/Greek and Roman. I'm not an expert on the matter but I was reading in a book (I can't recall which one unfortunately) that was referring to the surprise and horror of the Macedonian soldiers at the battle of Kynos Kephales in 197 B.C when they faced the Roman swords that were designed not only to pierce (as the Greek ones) but to cut as well. The result was mutilated limps on the part of the Macedonian army, which spread horror to the troops. In any case truth or not it's an interesting topic.
Sorry I can't provide any bibliography in my posting! Comments?

[Federico]

This is a really interesting topic. In fact Greek machaira was a short sword already used by hoplites. In Plutarch (Lyc. 19, 4) it is reported an "apophtegma" by Agis (338-331 BC), king of Sparta connected to sword shortness, especially the ones from Laconia. The macedonian phalangites at Kynoskephalai probably had a short sword derived from macedonian knief, just like swords used by Alexander's pezhetairoi. It was of pratically no use, because once the enemy soldiers avoided the danger of the sarissa (very rarely) had no problem to defeat the macedonian "warrior-farmers" of that period. Romans used the terrible "gladius", a Spanish double-edged sword, that Hellenes considered unfair! (Polybius). Roman soldiers were better trained in combat with hand weapons and when they didn't understand the "sarissas' rising" as a sign of surrender the massacre started.
Phobos ka+¼ Deimos
Federico from Italy

[Yiannis]

After I posted my message I found out that the Greek "hoplitai" were using a bronze sword with an iron cutting edge.

[Terratheon]

Later Macedonian phalangites used swords which were little more than daggers. We know less about the swords they used at the time of Alexander, but if the ancient battles against PersiaGÇÖs Greek mercenaries are any indication they probably were not as heavily armed or armored as those troops. Macedonian Hypapists, Companion cavalry and the Thesallians appear to have used the Kopessa or Kopis, a long Thracian sword resembling the later Gurkha Kukri, but longer and with a point. The Roman Gladius was derived from the Spanish Falcata, a weighted double edged sword meant to slice and stab through armor as well as flesh. At Cynoscephalae and Pydna the Macedonia bucklers were easily splintered by the Gladius. The Gauls used long broad swords of lamentably soft iron which could scarcely bear the rigors of combat. The new kingdom Egyptians used sword resembling scythes, so Egyptian farmers among their ranks could use pastoral tools and skills in combat. I know little about ancient Persian swords, although it seems there famed scimitar was later development.him

[Akatsukami]

We should remember that for most soldiers othr than the Roman, the sword was very much a secondary arm. Even the Japanese, who we would expect to be master swordsmen, called the military art kyuba no michi -- "the way of horse and bow" -- with no mention of swords (indeed, there is a bunki -- "war tale" -- in which the protagonist thinks at one point, "At least my opponent only has a sword").

[Federico]

I also know very little about Persian swords, but I heard they were similar to those of the Scythians or directly buyed from them. Scythians were masters in the use of metal, and they used very long swords for those times. Nobles from Asiatic steppe went to battle handling wonderful pieces of art historiated with sacred deer and other animals carved on pure gold. I saw these with my own eyes, still in good conditions, at an international exhibition called "L'oro degli Sciti - The gold of Scythians" in Milan. Scythians were famous for their spectacular jewels and horse harness with golden plates depicting manifold wild animals. This is only an hypotheses, but I think it is very probable the Persians drew their armory craft from Saka as they called the central Scythians. I also saw painted on greek vases Persians handling the already mentioned kopis, probably common amongst peoples living Phrygia Hellespontica and Thrace.
Phobos ka+¼ Deimos
Federico

[ronjeez]

yes i read some articles about Kynos Kephales its a good battle between them


_________________
Copper sinks

[athenas owl]

Wow...that's some resurrectiion!

[jason1]

I'd like to add to the discussion the topic of sword types in ancient armies. Especially Persian, Macedonian/Greek and Roman. I'm not an expert on the matter but I was reading in a book (I can't recall which one unfortunately) that was referring to the surprise and horror of the Macedonian soldiers at the battle of Kynos Kephales in 197 B.C when they faced the Roman swords that were designed not only to pierce (as the Greek ones) but to cut as well. The result was mutilated limps on the part of the Macedonian army, which spread horror to the troops. In any case truth or not it's an interesting topic.
Sorry I can't provide any bibliography in my posting! Comments?

I haven't read that one, hope i could read that book... Are you good in using sword?