who was Heracleides?

[smittysmitty]

Plutarch on the subject of the casket which held ATG's copy of the Iliad, says the following;'This anecdote is supported by many reliable historians, and if the tradition which has been handed down by the Alexandrians on the authority of *Heracleides* is true, then certainly the poems of Homer were by no means an irrelevant or an unprofitable possession to accompany him on his campaigns.' Also, Jona, if you happen to read this post, you mention previously, the casket copy of the Iliad originatesfrom Onesticritus; I was wondering how you came to that conclusion and is it something that other historians subscribe to also?many thanks

[jona]

"Jona, if you happen to read this post, you mention previously, the casket copy of the Iliad originatesfrom Onesticritus; I was wondering how you came to that conclusion and is it something that other historians subscribe to also?"That's what it says in my edition of Plutarch, Alexander 8.2.best wishesJona

[Taphoi]

There were men called Heracleides who accompanied Alexander on his expedition, and especially one who explored the Csapian Sea. However, it is believed that Plutarch is referring to Heracleides of Alexandria, who was a writer and historian living in that city in the late third to mid-second century BC.
The Recension of the Casket is also mentioned in a passage in Strabo (13.1.27) believed to derive from Callisthenes. It had annotations by Alexander, who was a considerable authority on the Iliad.

[marcus]

"It had annotations by Alexander, who was a considerable authority on the Iliad."Hi Andrew - do you mean annotations by Aristotle? Also, out of interest (because I'm not really up on my Aristotle), do we actually know that he was a "considerable authority", or was it just that, as Alexander's tutor, he was the 'obvious' one to write the annotations?All the bestMarcus

[smittysmitty]

I guess we can't dismiss Heracleides, son of Argaeus as being the author in question. He too performed a similar role as Onesicritus and Nearchos, and given an exploration-the Hyrcanian Sea- and given that the latter two both wrote on Alexander , we may grant, at least, the ability of Heracleides to do similarly. Would it be fair to suggest, that, at the time of Plutarch writing, this Heracleides - who ever he may be - was no longer extant, however, a tradition amongst scholars from Alexandria developed, preserving his works, perhaps creating a new genre of writing?Thanks for your responses.

[marcus]

Hi Smitty,I think the sentence indicates that Heracleides' work *was* extant. It was the Alexandrine tradition that was handed down *through* Heracleides' work - hence Plutarch was able to read Heracleides.I always find it quite astounding how many writers' works were obviously lost *after* Plutarch's time, judging by the number of historians he quotes in his biographies (not just the one of Alexander). Wouldn't it be marvellous if they were all to be discovered?All the bestMarcus

[Taphoi]

The Strabo (Callisthenes) passage states that Alexander annotated the Casket Recension. Alexander would have nominated either the Iliad or the plays of Euripides as his specialist subject on Mastermind! He knew much of both by heart and used to quote them frequently.

[smittysmitty]

Hi Marcus,I see where your coming from, but can't agree with you. My understanding of the narrative,is that the *tradition* handed down by the Alexandrian scholars is based on the *authority* of Heracleides, not as you suggest, Heracleides has become an authority on the Alexandrian tradition. May be a case once again, of getting someone who can read the original form and translate for us. Karl! Andrew? (This is becoming a regular event for us Marcus! - we really need to learn some ancient Greek) . By the way, how did the shhot go? you never really explained much about it. You're not scored a role in the up comming ATG movie have you? cheers!

[marcus]

Ah, thanks for the clarification. I assumed that you'd got the names mixed round in your excitement :-)OK, so Aristotle taught Alexander, but it was Alexander who wrote the notes. I hope he had good handwriting...All the bestMarcus

[marcus]

It does go to show how (a) the same passage can throw up different interpretations, and (b) we are at the mercy of the translators, doesn't it? It's true, though, that the Greek I did at school is now almost completely gone, and was never good enough to be able to read the sources with any regard for nuances!The video shoot was like all shoots - lots and lots of hanging around, interspersed with bits of filming. It was only corporate video stuff, unfortunately, not quite in Oliver Stone's league, but not bad all the same.All the bestMarcus

[amyntoros]

The first translation of Strabo (1856) says: "There exists a corrected copy of the poems of Homer, called 'the casket-copy.' Alexander perused it with Callisthenes and Anaxarchus, and having made some marks and observations deposited it in a casket of costly workmanship which he found among the Persian treasures." The translator, W. Falconer, says in a footnote: "According to Plutarch, the poem of Homer was the Iliad revised and corrected by Aristotle. From what Strabo here says of Callisthenes and Anaxarchus, we may probably understand a second revision made by them under the inspection of Alexander."Mmm, *two* copies? Not beyond the realms of possibility - but that still doesn't answer the question of which one was in the casket. :-)Best regards,Linda Ann

[marcus]

It might have been a very large casket (and therefore probably a very large and lumpy pillow).Still, thanks - that helps clear up my Alexander/Aristotle confusion!All the bestMarcus

[agesilaos]

My reading of this is that there was one copy; the one organised and annotated by Aristotle and that Alexander and chums further annotated this.Further J R Hamilton suggests Heracleides Lembus,a civil servant who worked in Oxyrhynchos and was living in Alexandria in 170 BC. He wrote historia and a book on Homer frgs inMueller FHG 3 167ff

[marcus]

Yep, you're probably right. It does at least read as if Alexander made further notes on the copy originally annotated by Aristotle.It would still have to be quite a big casket, and it surely wouldn't *really* fit under his pillow. It would be a bit like the Princess and the Pea, wouldn't it? One heck of a crick in his neck!All the bestMarcus

[smittysmitty]

Hi Karl,yes I thought of Lembus also, a strong candidate!Another is Heracleides of Pontus, time period fits in nicely and Plutarch quotes him in at least two of his other 'Live'; Theseus and Solon.I'm working on a theory revolving around the establishment of Alexandria, Egypt; I'd appreciate your opinion Karl if you could give me your translation of Plutarch' Alexander[26]. Do you think the narrative reads that this Heracleides was the inspiration behind an Alexandrian literary movement, or he had become an authority as a result of the knowlege he had of a Alexandrian lierary movement.Gee! don't know if that makes sense! Hope it does , perhaps the choice of expression is not to good; never mind.In appreciation