An illegitimate son?

[bob]

I read on a website today that at Alexander's death, he had an illegitimate sone named Herekles (Actually, it was "Hercules" but I know better.) who was suppossedly 10 or 12 at the time of Alexander's death. I don't remember this in any of the big 5 sources, unless I just don't remember. Can anyone prove this? Thanks Bob

[ruthaki]

Herakles was Alexander's illegitimate son by the Persian woman, Barsine, widow of Memmnon. He was never recognized until after the legitimate son (Alexander IV) by Alexander's Soghdian wife Roxane was murdered by Kassandros. Then Herkales was brought forward as a possible successor to the throne. But he was also murdered. He would have been in his teens by then and lived in Asia Minor with his mother.

[Nicator]

Hello Ruth,
I seem to recall that Barsine, and hence Heracles, was deposited in Ectbatana on the way to Bactria? Does that sound familiar?Nicator

[bob]

Thanks Ruth!

[marcus]

However, in the initial arguments at Babylon after Alexander's death, Nearchus did try to stand up for Herakles' claims (at Susa Nearchus had married Barsine's daughter, so he had a vested interest in promoting Barsine's family) - see Curtius 10.6.10-12; so there was in fact a very early attempt to put him forward as a successor. As it happened Nearchus was shouted down and, indeed, Herakles was not considered again until Cassander brought him out.ATBMarcus

[marcus]

According to Diodorus he was born in 327BC - Justin says 325/4BC ... by which time Alexander was about to invade India, or on his way back from India. Thereafter he was brought up in Pergamum, until he was brought out (by Polyperchon, in fact, who was then induced by Cassander to murder him). So I don't think Ecbatana comes into it ... but Pergamum does.ATBMarcus

[marcus]

See other messages for more details, Bob; but as far as references are concerned (not exhaustive list):Diodorus 20.20.1, 20.28.1Justin 11.10.3, 13.2.7, 15.2.3Curtius 10.6.10-13Plutarch, Eumenes, 1.7Pausanias 9.7.2Etc.ATBMarcus

[ruthaki]

Yes, I was going to say Pergamum but Marcus beat me to it. The story of Barsine and Herakles is quite an interesting (and tragic) one.

[dean]

Hello,
I knew about the son that he "supposedly" had with Barsine- and I think that the strange "love" triangle- that of Alexander having a relationship albeit of the briefest with Memnon's widow is worthy of a Shakespearean play be it comedy or tragedy.
What did ring a little out of tune in your post was the term "illegitimate". Can this term, as for example the term, homosexual, be applied to the life and times of Alexander with its 20th century implications? Was the concept of marriage as it is viewed today? Alexander, as Philip, was free to marry how many wives he wanted. But was the ceremony of marriage as binding? Did he "marry" Roxanne? The ceremony would have taken place far from his homeland. From memory, I think, the ceremony was with the bride or groom cutting some bread with a sword. I suppose that this is how it took place in the mas weddings at Susa.Best regards,
Dean.

[bob]

I have not been able to find out how Heracles did. Did Kassander have him killed as well?

[amyntoros]

Great timing for these questions, Dean - I've been struggling with some of my own having finally found an inexpensive copy of Maria Brosius' Women in Ancient Persia. She quite startled me when, on page 78, she says that Memnon's widow was also married to Alexander. Backtracking through the book I find that while the Persian kings did practice polygamy, in the ideal situation (although not always practical), the king's wives came from Persian families while the concubines were women of possibly high social rank but of foreign descent; and although the king could have more than one wife, there was only one queen. Now does this mean that Barsine's family considered her relationship with Alexander to be a marriage, no matter how the Macedonians interpreted it? Being the daughter of a Persian noble, her family would surely have been insulted had she been recognized as only a concubine, don't you think? (Here the nationality of Barsine's mother is of much less importance than her father.)

If this was the case it could explain why Barsine and her family still might have been insulted (but not overly offended) by Alexander's marriage to Roxane. Now, I'm not sure what foreign descent would have meant regarding the concubines at this point of time. Were true Persians nobles still considered to be only those people of central Persia, and would Roxane have been though of as of foreign descent? If this was the case, then Barsine's family would have thought Roxane only suitable as a concubine, but Alexander's proclamation of marriage to her would have made her equal to Barsine in status. If this was not the case, then Alexander's marrying her in a ceremony according to the Macedonian tradition (Curtius 8.4.27) and therefore formally proclaiming the marriage before his Macedonians might still have upset Barsine's family because she had not been treated this way. However, they could still have viewed Barsine as a legitimate wife of Alexander according to Persian tradition.

One thing I am convinced of, however, is that when Alexander later married Stateira in a *Persian* ceremony, her status became that of queen and that any sons of hers would have inherited the throne. In Macedonian polygamy there may have been no formal queen, but Alexander showed intent of following Persian practice in this instance. My opinion, anyway.

Continued . . .

[amyntoros]

. . . Continued

I'm not wholly convinced about Barsine's marriage, btw, and am just throwing this out as food for thought. Brosius does not giving supporting evidence for her claim, leaving me to try and reason it out, as above. However, I feel that in trying to present the Persian viewpoint she doesn't always properly consider Greek/Macedonian history. For example, on page 36 concerning Alexander's multiple marriages she says, "Alexander was indeed following a Persian practice, there is reasonable ground to argue that polygamous marriages were common among Persian kings throughout the Achaemenid rule." Although this statement comes on the heels of other evidence of royal Persian polygamy, it doesn't allow for any awareness of the practice of polygamy amongst Macedonian kings.

Best regards,

[ruthaki]

I understand that Barsine likely had met Alexander when they were young and her father was ambassador to Macedonia. She had a couple of daughters by Memnon, I believe and was several years older than Alexander. I can't believe he actually 'married' her, but he certainly treated her well when he inherited her along with Darius's womenfolk. So they had an affair. She must have taught him a lot because afterwards he had a couple of other women who he 'legally' married (to get legal heirs to his throne, no doubt as well as to consolidate political relations). If he had 'married' Barsine then why would they consider her son illegitimate?
As for who killed Herakles, I think Polyperchon brought him up as a possible successor after Alexander IV was murdered by Kassandros, and I understand it was Kassandros who saw that Herkles and Barsine were both disposed of as well, making it easier for him to claim everything for himself (as he was married to Alexander's half-ister Thessaloniki by then)

[marcus]

I think it was Polyperchon who actually had him killed, although it was, apparently, on Cassander's instigation.ATBMarcus

[marcus]

She also had at least one daughter by her first husband, Mentor (Memnon's brother) - it was that daughter that Nearchus married at Susa.ATBMarcus