Amateurs attempting Gaugamela

[marcus]

Hi All,For those in the UK... the BBC2 series "Time Commanders" is apparently doing Gaugamela this coming Monday (8 Dec) at 6.45pm.The idea behind the programme is to get a group of amateurs to play the general, and using some fairly wacky computer graphics try to win whichever ancient battle they are showcasing that week.I saw one episode a few weeks ago, when a team of TV 'personalities' led the Ptolemaic forces at the battle of Raffia. It was OK, although the team showed a depressing lack of generalship... although they still managed to win.It will be interesting to see how Gaugamela goes!All the bestMarcus

[Kit]

Thank's Marcus,I wondered when they would get to one of ATG battles! I saw the Cannae battle a few weeks ago, the amateurs then were no Hannibal Barca! It makes you think they pick the people with the least knowledge of Ancient History/Warfare, they never seem to have a clue who should have won until the 'experts' tell them!!!regards,Kit

[Nicator]

hhmmm, you guys get all the cool shows over there:(the best we can get is A&E history channel, and i've already discussed how that can be...plus if u want it, you have to subscribe to cable and pay the $30/month. No thanks, i prefer to read a bookNick

[beausefaless]

Now I know why Churchill wanted & needed the Untied States so desperately to enter WWII, this is as bad as the folks down under doing the phalanx walk through with phony sarissa's, just like a karate expert breaking a board the problem here is boards don't hit back. You left yourselves open for this one plus posts have been too polite lately I need to roughen up some feathers, again, for these programs are ridicules and worthless they prove absolutely nothing!

[Nicator]

ouch! Andrew delivers a painful attack into Marcus' flank ...the brits are reeling, time to dust off the old Wellington papers and deliver a counter charge!

[davej]

I'll bite and its not the first time you have over stepped the mark. The down under coment I believe was directly aimed at myself or Dr Minor Markle either way I feel tremendously offended. Dr MArkle's research into Sarissas over the last 30 years has brought forward many facts that other scholars took for granted. Have you anything worthwhile to contribute to the debate or to you just want to bitch. Have you contributed anything to the field of historical scholarship or is hysterical drunken outburst the limit of you talent? Having just completed another sarissa drill with those phony sarissas which incident are still 5.5m long and 7.5kg in weight I find it demeaning that somebody like you can off handedly critise my and Minor's work. By the way we used some real heads as well as the fibreglass ones from the Japanese documentry. It will take some time to put together all of the result but when they are together I will be notifying people who have the ability to recognise historical research. Furthermore as far as Karate people breaking planks go, I kind of agree with you , however have you done it? I did 8 years of sport karate before injuries and marriage got in the way. I pinched nerves in my elbow and dislocated fingers and lost a lot of skin punching timber, It is a mind over matter thing. They are'nt that easy to break if you are'nt commited. I know you are an old soldier, did you or did you not part take of war games for training? Is that the same or is it different because it is the American army. I no longer have any time for you Andrew. I wish I could say what I want to say but the mediator would wipe my post.

[marcus]

Andrew - thanks, that made me laugh.In some respects you're probably right, that these shows are 'worthless'. I enjoyed the one I saw on Raffia, I have to confess, because I found it amazing how inept the 'contestants' were. But I shouldn't blame them for knowing nothing about warfare.The programme would actually be far more 'worthy' if they spent more time analysing the way the team behaves, the leadership style (or lack of) etc. It would then be an extremely good management programme. There's a lot to be learned about decision making!But I promise you it was enjoyable... and thank goodness none of the contestants are responsible for running our armed forces, otherwise I'd agree with your comment about Churchill :-)All the bestMarcus

[agesilaos]

I have not seen the Alexander battles but I caught the Cannae one; the most annoying aspect for me was that the so-called experts hadn't got a clue about the Carthaginian army; sarissae and clibanarii! Nor did it look as if the contestants could have replicated Hannibal's tactics as the animated figures wave their swords about and then break they do not give ground sucking the Romans in. Previously in one on Tigranocerta we were treated to archers launching guided missiles. Amusing but not history.As for the Aussie phalanx that is much more worthy, experimental archaeology rather than extended adverts for a PC game. I await the results; here I have pub based chats with Sealed Knot (English Civil War) re-enactors as they too used pikes it will be interesting to see how the experiences compare.

[Kit]

'Now I know why Churchill wanted & needed the Untied States so desperately to enter WWII'Andrew,If we aren't there to hold your hand look what trouble the yanks get into- thirteen years to lose a war!No wonder George W Bush (and his dad) wanted & needed the United Kingdom so desperately to enter Gulf War II!!!yours in fun,Kit

[Thalestris]

Greetings Companions,Why do individuals feel compelled by an overwhelming desire to divert from the message thread to provoke arguments on this site, especially comments that are inclined to offend. What purpose does that serve, except to persuade visitors to 'turn away' rather than learn from this site. I visit the site to retrieve information or build camaraderie with other ATG enthusiasts, yet lately I've encountered postings unrelated to ATG and message threads that are antagonistic. Perhaps my post will incur animosity.Thalestris

[Nicator]

Hey Karl,I liked the idea, so a few months ago, I had my nephews go through a few drills (with me). We used sticks and lawn hoes...it was a lot of fun for all:)
We spun around on an axis, and changed positions, marched straight forward, charged, halted, changed speeds, had everyone try his hand at leading the action with commands, and we even crossed over each others line...the boys loved it, I just had to make sure that they knew how dangerous it could be if they decided to try it without me there. later Nicator

[aen]

Andrew,I was interested by your remark that the walk about with the sarissas was a pointless excercise.I assume then that you would feel live-fire training (let's say for Marine inductees) is similarly pointless unless there's an opposition firing live rounds back at the trainees on a shoot-to-kill-basis.I very much doubt that any Macedonian phalangite acquired his handling of the sarissa solely on the battlefield. They were rigorously drilled and trained beforehand - witness our sources. Perhaps you feel that was worthless too, and if so I doubt any of them would agree with you.When others make an honest attempt to literally get to grips with the physical realities of history, it seems trite to fault them for not doing so under full field conditions.Laters.

[beausefaless]

Simply stated, "your post were starting to boar me to sleep", I had to give you a swift kick in the rear to wake you up, know this is the old DJ I've known from the past, I was getting worried about you! Keep up the good work and don't hurt yourselves now.
Alexander would use the phalanx to keep the enemy at bay and or would use them to set a trap, as you know he used this strategy in many battles in different ways and they all work to perfection.
You're correct we had more than enough war games but when came to the fighting in the field half of those maneuvers went right out the window.
It was good to hear from you again! Take care,Andrew

[beausefaless]

You are so correct! If Bush senior would have taken the advantage in the first gulf war we wouldn't be looking like amateurs today, if G.W. Bush and the top brass was using Alexander's method of anti guerrilla warfare we would not be loosing more men during the post war compared to the war itself. You make a very good point! Thanks,

Andrew

[beausefaless]

You make a very good point, the Macedonian phalanx being rigorously drilled and trained is a whole different ball game then a bunch of amateurs playing (bang bang your dead) war games.