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Re: an account from Athenaeus(?)
Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:48 am
by marcus
agesilaos wrote:Perseus is an excellent resource for looking at the greek but will sadly only search for terms found in LSJ so it does not recognise pezhetairoi, for example...I'm rambling
Rambling is good ...
I love Perseus, though - although some of the translations are quite old, they are still 'standard' translations. While they are not necessarily perfect for linguistic study, I've always felt they have a superb selection of Latin and Greek texts, and have managed to gain huge amounts of material from there. It's at the top of my historical sources bookmarks on Google!
ATB
Re: an account from Athenaeus(?)
Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:13 pm
by Paralus
agesilaos wrote: Perseus is an excellent resource for looking at the greek but will sadly only search for terms found in LSJ so it does not recognise pezhetairoi, for example...I'm rambling
In which case one toddles off to
Philolog.us...
πεζ-έταιροι, οἱ,
A. foot-guards in the Macedon. army (cf. ἑταῖρος), D.2.17, Anaximen. Lampsac.4J., Plu.Flam. 17, 2.197c.
Re: an account from Athenaeus(?)
Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:14 pm
by agesilaos
Not quite what I meant, Paralus old chap, I was thinking more of the word frequency tool which allows you in a trice to find all of Curtius' uses of
armiger for example and then argue about what Greek term he is translating; yes, I have trawled the whole corpus for armiger, amicus, custos etc one day soon I will get it all organised
1/2 an excel sheet, 1/2 an excel sheet.... Naturally one can just search for hetairos, which is what I did in the end, throws up alot of returns which aren't required, though.
I tend to only use Perseus for the Greek and Latin, most of the translations are available at LacusCurtius, though the way he has divided Plutarch's Life is a bit of a pain.
Re: an account from Athenaeus(?)
Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:19 pm
by Paralus
Yes, I figured so. Arrian, of course, uses the term (1.28.3 tous hupaspistas eikhen, ekhomenous de touton tous pezetairous and 7.11.3 Makedonika onomata agema ti Persikon kaloumenon kai pezetairoi for example) but the word frequency tool will not find it as there exists no definition. The LSJ only referencing the individual words pezos and etairos. Similarly Arrian's uses of kouphos.
Re: an account from Athenaeus(?)
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:48 pm
by jan
Thanks for all the links. It is amazing to think how scholars interpret each selection. I was quite impressed with the story of the young girl who had been married 14 times. Olympias has made some interesting comments as well. As for being devoted to boys, that seems a matter of interpretation since boys would become the future army and can be meant as devoted to care or education of boys to succeed in military. I do understand the context but as dinner stories go, we call it juicy gossip kitty Kelly style, unauthorized and subject to individual judgments. But fascinating to consider that it is so important to some and irrelevant to others
Re: an account from Athenaeus(?)
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:01 pm
by marcus
jan wrote:As for being devoted to boys, that seems a matter of interpretation since boys would become the future army and can be meant as devoted to care or education of boys to succeed in military. I do understand the context but as dinner stories go, we call it juicy gossip kitty Kelly style, unauthorized and subject to individual judgments. But fascinating to consider that it is so important to some and irrelevant to others
Hi Jan,
I have italicised part of your post, to link to the point that the comment from Athenaeus cannot be interpreted in
any other way:
Book 13. 603 a – c
King Alexander also was madly devoted to boys. Dicaearchus, at any rate, in his book On the Sacrifice at Ilium says that he was so overcome with love for the eunuch Bagoas that, in full view of the entire theatre, he, bending over, caressed Bagoas fondly, and when the audience clapped and shouted in applause, he, nothing loath, again bent over and kissed him. But Carystius in Historical Notes says: “Charon of Chalcis had a beautiful boy who was dear to him. But when Alexander, at a drinking-party in the house of Craterus, praised the boy, Charon bade him kiss Alexander; and he said, “Not so! For that will not delight me so much as it will pain you.” For, passionate as this king was, he was in like measure self-controlled when it came to the observance of decency and the best form. When, for example, he had taken captive the daughters of Darius and his wife as well, a woman of very distinguished beauty, he not only kept his hands off them, but he even refrained from letting them know that they were captives, and ordered that everything be done for them just as if Darius were still king. Therefore Darius on learning this, raised his arms and prayed to the Sun that either he or Alexander might be king.”
I am not going to comment on whether it is important or irrelevant, because I agree that it depends on the person. But this isn't just juicy gossip, as Athenaeus is making a serious point about Alexander's sexual restraint (with either sex).
ATB