gotta have been the toughest Mother *ucker ever?

[Paralus]

You seem a little selective in your arguments Efstathios.

Last first. And not to derail the thread onto the Persian court but the written material we have is almost all Greek We have next to nothing from the Persian side. Imagine the "cold war" being written about two thousand years hence with the only written documentation being the Russian?

Of course it was an Empire. States under its dominion were by definition not free or autonomous as the Greeks would say GÇô including the Greeks of Ionia (just as states were not "free" under Macedonian rule GÇô to suggest they were is
ridiculous). They were however free in religious custom and much else. The Persians were well aware that allowing the subject nations to practise their native customs, culture and religion was important to maintaining control. Revolution was punished, something the Greeks and Macedonia also practised well (below).As to the statement (that from Persia's perspective) "huge statues and great buildings and the harems were more important than poetry,theatre,philosophy,art,e.t.c e.t.c.There is no comparison" shows a low level of understanding of the Persian culture. Very little of this has survived for us to see. Much of their cities and temples are in a bad state of decay. Still we have what's left of their sculpture and art. We have Zoroastrianism. Again the descriptions we have are Greek. You swallow Greek propaganda far too well.Back to Alexander: the Greek mercenaries who asked for quarter at Granicus? Nothing to add? Batis "The Arab" dragged around Gaza?As for Thebes, my view is well known. No doubt certain Greeks would dearly have loved to see Thebes razed. No doubt also a furious Alexander determined to make an example (one he would repeat in Asia)that revolt would not be tolerated. The synergy of ever present Greek envy and inter-city hatreds and the "league" provided a perfect opportunity. You need only sit back and allow it to happen. Much of the Tyre massacre is levelled at the "Macedonian toops" in just the same fashion. The argument that a portion of the population was massacred is ludicrous. What constitutes an acceptable level of mass murder? Two thousand? Four?Genkis Khan is irrelevant here. Alexander was not on any homicidal path to destroy populations - far from it. But Neither was he any greatly "better" as a "Lord of Asia" than those he supplanted. Rose coloured glasses ore for Christmas parties.

[Paralus]

You seem a little selective in your arguments Efstathios.

Last first. And not to derail the thread onto the Persian court but the written material we have is almost all Greek We have next to nothing from the Persian side. Imagine the "cold war" being written about two thousand years hence with the only written documentation being the Russian?

Of course it was an Empire. States under its dominion were by definition not free or autonomous as the Greeks would say GÇô including the Greeks of Ionia (just as states were not "free" under Macedonian rule GÇô to suggest they were is
ridiculous). They were however free in religious custom and much else. The Persians were well aware that allowing the subject nations to practise their native customs, culture and religion was important to maintaining control. Revolution was punished, something the Greeks and Macedonia also practised well (below).As to the statement (that from Persia's perspective) "huge statues and great buildings and the harems were more important than poetry,theatre,philosophy,art,e.t.c e.t.c.There is no comparison" shows a low level of understanding of the Persian culture. Very little of this has survived for us to see. Much of their cities and temples are in a bad state of decay. Still we have what's left of their sculpture and art. We have Zoroastrianism. Again the descriptions we have are Greek. You swallow Greek propaganda far too well.Back to Alexander: the Greek mercenaries who asked for quarter at Granicus? Nothing to add? Batis "The Arab" dragged around Gaza?As for Thebes, my view is well known. No doubt certain Greeks would dearly have loved to see Thebes razed. No doubt also a furious Alexander determined to make an example (one he would repeat in Asia)that revolt would not be tolerated. The synergy of ever present Greek envy and inter-city hatreds and the "league" provided a perfect opportunity. You need only sit back and allow it to happen. Much of the Tyre massacre is levelled at the "Macedonian toops" in just the same fashion. The argument that a portion of the population was massacred is ludicrous. What constitutes an acceptable level of mass murder? Two thousand? Four?Genkis Khan is irrelevant here. Alexander was not on any homicidal path to destroy populations - far from it. But Neither was he any greatly "better" as a "Lord of Asia" than those he supplanted. Rose coloured glasses ore for Christmas parties.

[Efstathios]

Paralus: I saw a map in a newspaper a few days ago ,where greece was shown,and in the place of Bulgaria was Sweden,in the place of Turkey was Finland and in the place of Albania was Switzerland.And the text underneath said:"If only these were our neighboors..." Greece is surrounded by nations that want a piece of the pie.A piece of greece that is.Now you see that what you may call propaganda is actually needed for this country to survive.And it is not propaganda.Nor sovinism.It is just plain truth.The truth that actually non-greeks make us realise.But that's a very big discussion... And of course the persian empire ended thousands of years ago.So why propaganda? We have enough information about the persians.Their contribution to literature,art,creative thinking e.t.c is poor in comparison with even nations that were occupied by them.P.e the egyptians.The archaiologists have found many interesting things in asia.Truly the persians had build huge temples and monuments and statues and palaces.but they were just huge and magnificent.Not pretty,and their construction was just aiming to impress. The pyramids are complicated structures that hide knowledge in the way that they were construted.So is the Parthenon.Countless mathematical and astronomical secrets can be found in these structures.Do you see the difference here? The persians had an advanced system of beurocracy.That shows us that they were indeed an advanced civiliztion in some things.In some things... I dont imply that hey didnt have writing or scripts in general or music e.t.c. Sure they had.As the Babylonians had before them.But their cultural evolution was like a straight line,while the cultural evolution of egypt and greece especially was an ascending line. P.G You are right about Verkikendorix, i always had the feeling that he was put to death right after the battle...

[Efstathios]

Paralus: I saw a map in a newspaper a few days ago ,where greece was shown,and in the place of Bulgaria was Sweden,in the place of Turkey was Finland and in the place of Albania was Switzerland.And the text underneath said:"If only these were our neighboors..." Greece is surrounded by nations that want a piece of the pie.A piece of greece that is.Now you see that what you may call propaganda is actually needed for this country to survive.And it is not propaganda.Nor sovinism.It is just plain truth.The truth that actually non-greeks make us realise.But that's a very big discussion... And of course the persian empire ended thousands of years ago.So why propaganda? We have enough information about the persians.Their contribution to literature,art,creative thinking e.t.c is poor in comparison with even nations that were occupied by them.P.e the egyptians.The archaiologists have found many interesting things in asia.Truly the persians had build huge temples and monuments and statues and palaces.but they were just huge and magnificent.Not pretty,and their construction was just aiming to impress. The pyramids are complicated structures that hide knowledge in the way that they were construted.So is the Parthenon.Countless mathematical and astronomical secrets can be found in these structures.Do you see the difference here? The persians had an advanced system of beurocracy.That shows us that they were indeed an advanced civiliztion in some things.In some things... I dont imply that hey didnt have writing or scripts in general or music e.t.c. Sure they had.As the Babylonians had before them.But their cultural evolution was like a straight line,while the cultural evolution of egypt and greece especially was an ascending line. P.G You are right about Verkikendorix, i always had the feeling that he was put to death right after the battle...

[Paralus]

You singularly fail to see the point "Efstathios":"I saw a map in a newspaper a few days ago ,where greece was shown,and in the place of Bulgaria was Sweden,in the place of Turkey was Finland and in the place of Albania was Switzerland.And the text underneath said:"If only these were our neighboors..."
Greece is surrounded by nations that want a piece of the pie.A piece of greece that is.Now you see that what you may call propaganda is actually needed for this country to survive.And it is not propaganda."What I wrote bore absolutely no relevance to "Bulgaria" but much to "Greece" and Achaemenid Persia. One might say a two and some half thousand year difference.The Greek propaganda I mentioned is as old. That you apply it to modern Bulgarian politics says much about how much you understood my post.NextGǪ

[Paralus]

You singularly fail to see the point "Efstathios":"I saw a map in a newspaper a few days ago ,where greece was shown,and in the place of Bulgaria was Sweden,in the place of Turkey was Finland and in the place of Albania was Switzerland.And the text underneath said:"If only these were our neighboors..."
Greece is surrounded by nations that want a piece of the pie.A piece of greece that is.Now you see that what you may call propaganda is actually needed for this country to survive.And it is not propaganda."What I wrote bore absolutely no relevance to "Bulgaria" but much to "Greece" and Achaemenid Persia. One might say a two and some half thousand year difference.The Greek propaganda I mentioned is as old. That you apply it to modern Bulgarian politics says much about how much you understood my post.NextGǪ

[Efstathios]

As i recall you stated that i am maybe influenced by greek propaganda.And i thought you meant modern propaganda.And the example i gave is self explanatory.If you didnt understand it i can analyse it for you. But you are reffering to ancient greek propaganda?Well,there is no reason for a greek nowdays to be influenced by ancient propaganda that maybe reffered to other countries that now dont exist,such as the persian empire.What is the point? Dont forget that much of the written information about Persia comes from Heredotus,who was a half persian ,half greek.And he was generally objective.He wouldnt make any propaganda against Persia.And what exactly would you call propaganda?The statement that the persian empire was rather poor at arts compairing to greece and egypt is propaganda?Give me an example

[Efstathios]

As i recall you stated that i am maybe influenced by greek propaganda.And i thought you meant modern propaganda.And the example i gave is self explanatory.If you didnt understand it i can analyse it for you. But you are reffering to ancient greek propaganda?Well,there is no reason for a greek nowdays to be influenced by ancient propaganda that maybe reffered to other countries that now dont exist,such as the persian empire.What is the point? Dont forget that much of the written information about Persia comes from Heredotus,who was a half persian ,half greek.And he was generally objective.He wouldnt make any propaganda against Persia.And what exactly would you call propaganda?The statement that the persian empire was rather poor at arts compairing to greece and egypt is propaganda?Give me an example

[jan]

There is a movie about a British group who are trying to build a train in Africa, during the 18th century, in which the Africans and the British are being threatened by lions in the bush. The entire movie describes this event of man versus lion.In the case of Alexander and his day, it is a totally different setting and meaning. Alexander in a hand to paw battle with the lion subdued and mastered the lion, face to face, and succeeded in achieving a freedom from fear.This does not mean that Alexander is animalistic, but that he is capable and able to slay a lion in a manner that a later civilization would not even consider. The truth is that the mosaic which shows Alexander doing this was made to broadcast his exceptional qualities. It was not an act of barbarism or cruelty, but an act of courage and talent in survival. This is a very important point to remember about the age and about the person. He ACTUALLY achieved this! Very important, and I doubt that the lion then was called king of the jungle! King to King, and no wonder that Alexander would parade around in his headress of a lion. He and the lion both symbolize extreme bravery and courage.

[jan]

There is a movie about a British group who are trying to build a train in Africa, during the 18th century, in which the Africans and the British are being threatened by lions in the bush. The entire movie describes this event of man versus lion.In the case of Alexander and his day, it is a totally different setting and meaning. Alexander in a hand to paw battle with the lion subdued and mastered the lion, face to face, and succeeded in achieving a freedom from fear.This does not mean that Alexander is animalistic, but that he is capable and able to slay a lion in a manner that a later civilization would not even consider. The truth is that the mosaic which shows Alexander doing this was made to broadcast his exceptional qualities. It was not an act of barbarism or cruelty, but an act of courage and talent in survival. This is a very important point to remember about the age and about the person. He ACTUALLY achieved this! Very important, and I doubt that the lion then was called king of the jungle! King to King, and no wonder that Alexander would parade around in his headress of a lion. He and the lion both symbolize extreme bravery and courage.

[jan]

Thanks, Marcus, I was shocked that Amyntoros didn't spell the king of France's name correctly, but you are correct in both the spelling and the action that Caesar took against him. He had to spend time in prison before finally being strangled, I believe. Vercingetorix was considered king of gaul, and a great warrior. There is a famous painting of his standing before Caesar who is seated. I was shocked because Amyntoros is so usually perfect in all her posts! (smiley button goes here!)

[jan]

Thanks, Marcus, I was shocked that Amyntoros didn't spell the king of France's name correctly, but you are correct in both the spelling and the action that Caesar took against him. He had to spend time in prison before finally being strangled, I believe. Vercingetorix was considered king of gaul, and a great warrior. There is a famous painting of his standing before Caesar who is seated. I was shocked because Amyntoros is so usually perfect in all her posts! (smiley button goes here!)

[amyntoros]

*****Thanks, Marcus, I was shocked that Amyntoros didn't spell the king of France's name correctly, but you are correct in both the spelling and the action that Caesar took against him. He had to spend time in prison before finally being strangled, I believe. Vercingetorix was considered king of gaul, and a great warrior. There is a famous painting of his standing before Caesar who is seated. I was shocked because Amyntoros is so usually perfect in all her posts! (smiley button goes here!)*****Hmmm, Jan - you see those little rows of asterisks at the beginning and the end of the piece of writing above? It means I have literally copied and pasted the words from someone else's post (in this case yours), as I also did in the post you are critiquing. I find this method more effective than using quotation marks which tend to be barely visible because of the font used on Pothos. If you had read all the posts in sequence you would have seen that it was someone else who made the error that has caused you such consternation. Regardless of who made the spelling error, I think it is inappropriate for you to make these kind of comments on the forum. It is the content of the posts and not the spelling, typographical errors, or sentence construction which is of importance here. These are not essays we are submitting to an English teacher for comments and approval!Amyntoros

[amyntoros]

*****Thanks, Marcus, I was shocked that Amyntoros didn't spell the king of France's name correctly, but you are correct in both the spelling and the action that Caesar took against him. He had to spend time in prison before finally being strangled, I believe. Vercingetorix was considered king of gaul, and a great warrior. There is a famous painting of his standing before Caesar who is seated. I was shocked because Amyntoros is so usually perfect in all her posts! (smiley button goes here!)*****Hmmm, Jan - you see those little rows of asterisks at the beginning and the end of the piece of writing above? It means I have literally copied and pasted the words from someone else's post (in this case yours), as I also did in the post you are critiquing. I find this method more effective than using quotation marks which tend to be barely visible because of the font used on Pothos. If you had read all the posts in sequence you would have seen that it was someone else who made the error that has caused you such consternation. Regardless of who made the spelling error, I think it is inappropriate for you to make these kind of comments on the forum. It is the content of the posts and not the spelling, typographical errors, or sentence construction which is of importance here. These are not essays we are submitting to an English teacher for comments and approval!Amyntoros

[marcus]

Although I am keeping a separate 'mark book' ... :-)But I agree with you. Yes, it was not you who got the spelling wrong in the first place - and anyway, although I agree that we shouldn't be criticising that sort of thing, the person who spelled it "that way" in the first place was aware that it was wrong, and acknowledged ignorance of the correct spelling.But that wasn't the point, anyway.ATBMarcus