Coral wrote:I wonder, did Philip, who loved marriage as a useful political tool, ever wonder whether his sons would immediately kill each other on his death?
IGÇÖm not sure that he would have cared one way or the other. He needed to produce viable heirs while he was alive to keep the MacedonianGÇÖs happy, but I doubt it mattered to him what these heirs might do after his death. If the little stories we hear about his attitude towards Alexander are not apocryphal then Philip certainly had pride in his son, but IMHO everything he did was for his own glory and the glory of Macedonia (which was one and the same in those days). I really suspect that the GÇ£Son, one day all this will be yoursGÇ¥ vignette was rarely seen under ancient monarchies. (And now I canGÇÖt get Monty PythonGÇÖs GÇ£But father, I want to
SINGGÇ¥ out of my head!)
dean wrote:when I looked up the year of the marriage I have to admit that I looked at a timeline on the internet(can't remember which one) and found 338BC and then of course 336 for the murder but will try to look at it in a bit more detail later.
Elizabeth Carney in
Women and Monarchy in Macedonia says that Philip married Cleopatra after Chaeroneia, probably in the summer or early fall of 337, and Europa was born in late summer or fall of 336. The only way that I can see the Caranus GÇ£two childrenGÇ¥ theory working is to propose that Cleopatra was already pregnant when she married Philip (although Plutarch, Alexander 9.6 calls her a maiden) and that she gave birth shortly afterwards and then became pregnant again almost immediately. ItGÇÖs not impossible given that she wouldnGÇÖt have nursed her own child, but itGÇÖs not the greatest of probabilities, I admit.
marcus wrote:Nice one. I was fairly sure that the son was only mentioned in Justin, but I didn't have time to look it up. I'm surprised that Heckel doesn't include the Pausanias ref, even though the name isn't mentioned - it would still refer to Caranus, real or no.
Yeah, I found it curious that Heckel didnGÇÖt include the Pausanias reference. Then this morning I decided to put together a file for Cleopatra (will send it to you later GÇô itGÇÖs really short). While working with HeckelGÇÖs entry for Cleopatra, I remembered that he has a reference to PlutarchGÇÖs Alexander listed under Caranus GÇô the reference is to PhilipGÇÖs wedding and Heckel thinks that Caranus is
clearly nothing more than the son who, Alexander feared, might have fulfilled AttalusGÇÖ wish. The following is the quote from Plutarch:
Plutarch Alexander 9.7-8 Attalus, now, was the girl's uncle, and being in his cups, he called upon the Macedonians to ask of the gods that from Philip and Cleopatra there might be born a legitimate successor to the kingdom. At this Alexander was exasperated, and with the words, "But what of me, base wretch? Dost thou take me for a bastard?" threw a cup at him.
Prior to the above excerpt though, thereGÇÖs also this:
Plutarch, Alexander 9.6 The most open quarrel was brought on by Attalus at the marriage of Cleopatra, a maiden whom Philip was taking to wife, having fallen in love with the girl when he was past the age for it.
I must have read the short paragraph in his book a dozen times because I canGÇÖt believe it, but neither reference is given under HeckelGÇÖs entry for Cleopatra! Very, very strange, indeed.
Best regards,