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Paralus
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Post by Paralus »

marcus wrote:You are right, of course - Philotas was in completely the wrong place, as he was commander of the Companions he was on the right wing throughout the battle. That being said, Parmenion was commanding cavalry on the left wing, and Stone has him commanding an infantry wing - on foot, where he couldn't command anything beyond himself.

But it was necessary for Stone to put Philotas there, so that he and Parmenion were both "together" in the fear that Alexander would "betray" Parmenion by not coming to support him. This was necessary because there wasn't enough opportunity for more than one other scene where Philotas could clash with Alexander before his arrest and execution.
The exigencies of direction aside – and it was likely me who brought Stone’s film into this thread – there was no way Parmenio commanded the left of Alexander’s army on foot. As you say Marcus, he had command of the Thessalian cavalry – a command not easily exercised by running between horses – as well as the left wing of the Macedonian array. Parmenio will have fought as desperately as those about him as Mazaeus attempted the envelopment and annihilation of the Macedonian left.

It is little understood, I think, that the Macedonian left in this battle (as at Issus) was the “empire troop” equivalent of Robert Nivelle’s assault in April 1917. There, the Australians and the British had to suffer huge casualties at Bullecourt so as the French “wunderkind” could achieve his breakthrough. It never, of course, happened – unlike Alexander in this battle.

You can bet the blood spilled was not dissimilar though.

If you have not read Carlyon’s Great WarMarcus, do a “colonial” a favour and buy or borrow it. He is a most even handed writer – as well as one fully conversant with the language and how to use it.
Paralus
Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους;
Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.

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Fiona
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Post by Fiona »

Thanks for this long and detailed answer, which I have worked hard today at trying to understand.
Paralus wrote:
Ahhhh now, the key phrase is "dashing about". This immediately brings to mind the gallant image of Stone’s Alexander galloping out to his right at Gaugamela and then swinging left to gallop at the Persians. This, in my opinion, is as silly as it is nigh on impossible for reasons I’ll get to later.
See, when I first read Arrian, my eyes would glaze over trying to visualise the battles. Just couldn't do it. "What gap?" I would wonder. then, when I saw the film, I was all excited because finally it made sense. "Oh, I see ," I was saying to myself, and went back to Arrian and felt as if I was understanding it for the first time.
Now, I read what you have to say and wonder whether I shall ever understand. I felt like I did after I failed my driving test for the third time. But then, remembering that I passed the fourth time, I took up Arrian again and saw that maybe OS was right with the broad outline, but just exaggerated the movements, possibly for dramatic effect?
Paralus wrote:
In short, the personal foot-guard in Alexander’s time were the Royal Hypaspists. These were the sons of nobles and were led by men of similar blood: Admetos, Hephaestion (highly likely) and Seleucus. The rest of the Hypaspist corps comprised the strongest and the best of the rank and file Macedonians with officers promoted from within their ranks (Antigenes for example) and led by the “archihypaspist”, a noble such as Neoptolemus or Nicanor. The job of the unit was to protect the king – hence they are often referred to as “the Guards” and, when he was on foot, the agema would attach to him like a barnacle. In the battle line the hypaspist corps is always stationed alongside the Companion Cavalry and the king. Where he led they followed.
Nobly resisting the temptation to get side-tracked into what exactly Hephaistion did, I think I see now where my confusion is arising. It's because I've read so often that the hypaspists protected the right flank of the phalanx. RLF, for example:"The foot companions, some 10,000 strong, held sarissas at the ready in the centre, while their unshielded right flank was protected by the 3,000 shield-bearers, who in turn linked up with the aggressive right cavalry wing..."
Now, reading this, I understood it to mean that the shield bearers would stay put with the phalanx, which was why I was surprised when you said that some of them would stick with Alexander. Are you saying that just the agema would stick with the king, while the rest of the hypaspists would stick with the phalanx? Or do you mean the whole hypaspist corps would stick with the king?
Paralus wrote:
The two cogent descriptions are Issus and Gaugamela. Granicus too, although reduced by the sources to nothing more than a cavalry battle, sees the hypaspists alongside the king in the line. Interestingly, in this battle, the light troops – which will be the Agrianes and others – are described by Arrian as causing the Persians much discomfort having “forced their way in amongst the cavalry”. Not an overly glorious role – that belongs to Alexander and his cavalry in every battle description – nor one that generally tasks our sources overmuch and I rather suspect that this was one of their main roles in most battles.
Yes, indeed, it would be nice if the sources had more detail about what everybody was doing, not just Alexander. At Gaugamela, though, doesn't the mention of the Royal Guard finishing off the charioteers who'd tried to attack the phalanx, imply that they were still stationed alongside them, and had not gone to follow Alexander? Or does this reference to 'Royal Guard' refer to all the hypaspists that weren't in the agema?
Paralus wrote:
At Issus the Macedonian line approaches the river, and the Persians, at an even pace. Within “missile range” the king decides to charge the Persian left across the river. Given the charge was made across a river it will not have been at any great pace. The Agrianes and the hypaspists will have followed smartly as part of the assault force. To the Hypaspists' immediate left, the battalion of Coenus will have marched – at “charging pace” to close the distance and lessen the effect of the missiles. The rest of the phalanx will have taken its cue and “hopped the bags” as they used to say in the Great War. It is here that, somewhere along the line toward the centre, the phalanx units broke ranks over the difficulties of covering the terrain in unison.

Eventually Alexander swung left with the successful “picked troops under his command” and rolled the Persian left into the centre and came to the rescue of his phalanx. Those “picked troops” which had won a “brilliant local success” on the right will have included his hypaspists and the deadly spearmen of the Agrianes.
Didn't the Thessalian cavalry play a large part here? I remember Curtius's vivid description of the terrible squash, wouldn't more infantry just have made the problem worse?

Paralus wrote:
Gaugamela, though, provides a much clearer example. Here Alexander, with a three tiered right wing, advanced whilst “inclined slightly to the right”. This is countered by the Persians who move to their left. Arrian then describes Alexander as continuing “his advance towards the right” until he cleared the prepared ground thus provoking the Persians into the first real move. None of this implies, in any way, a precipitous gallop or charge out to the right by Alexander. What it does describe, clearly in my view, is a measured advance forward and to the Macedonian right. Were it to have occurred in the way Stone has it, we will have had some rather exhausted Agrianes, “veteran mercenaries” and hyperventilated hypaspists. Not to mention a deserted phalanx. This was a concerted advance to the right. The Mercenary cavalry, Agrianes and others led the echeloned line in their direction. The Companion Cavalry and the rest followed. Then, at the critical moment, Alexander ceased his rightward drift and “charged” the Persian line directly to his front. His “wedge” was formed by the Companions and the other cavalry available to him and, importantly, “all of the heavy infantry in this sector of the field”. That heavy infantry is the hypaspist corps. All will have assailed the Persian line across a gap that was, by now, not terribly large (Medias’ cavalry had already engaged the Scythians earlier) and taken the brigade of Coenus with them.
That all sounds fair enough - again, it seems like Stone's version is just faster and further away, but not essentially wrong. he did have infantry men taking part in the charge, although they looked more like they were meant to be Agrianes than hypaspists.
Paralus wrote: This then is where Simmias, out to the left next to Craterus' battalion, likely had a terrible decision to make: follow the general advance or stand and fight as his infantry commader, Craterus, and Parmenio came under increasingly heavy assault and were rooted to the spot. He decided to stay put and play his part in the desperate bloodbath that was the holding action on the Macedonian left. He likely had little choice.
A common problem I should think, for those in the middle, when to your right they're winning and to your left they're losing. Perhaps he had already received orders about what to do.
Paralus wrote: What then resulted was a desperate fight by the Persians toward their centre to escape the envelopment that the left swinging Cavalry, light troops, hypaspists and infantry were executing. The same situation as at Issus. At Hydaspes it resulted in the near annihilation of the Indian infantry.

In the end it comes down to “dashing” and just how far and fast one dashed. It seems evident to me that the dash was neither the sprint of the last stretch at Ascot or Churchill Downs and nor was the distance the “thoroughbred distance” (2,400 metres). Alexander’s successful assaults were combined with both light and heavy infantry. The hypaspists, and their agema, were in the thick of them all.

By the time Alexander was dead his hypaspist corps was an entity unto itself. As the Silver Shields they prided themselves on their service under Philip and Alexander and looked down their Macedonian noses at other commanders – as they appraised Antigonus’ phalanx at Gabiene. Their performance in that campaign in Iran demonstrated clearly what horribly proficient and ruthless killers they had become over their years of service.
I remember what you and Phoebus have been saying about their later careers. They sound awesome. Again, thank you for all this information.
Fiona
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Fiona
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Post by Fiona »

marcus wrote:
Hi Fiona,

You are right, of course - Philotas was in completely the wrong place, as he was commander of the Companions he was on the right wing throughout the battle. That being said, Parmenion was commanding cavalry on the left wing, and Stone has him commanding an infantry wing - on foot, where he couldn't command anything beyond himself.

But it was necessary for Stone to put Philotas there, so that he and Parmenion were both "together" in the fear that Alexander would "betray" Parmenion by not coming to support him. This was necessary because there wasn't enough opportunity for more than one other scene where Philotas could clash with Alexander before his arrest and execution.

ATB
Yes, artistic licence there, but I think you're right that that is why he did it.
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Paralus
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Post by Paralus »

Fiona wrote: It's because I've read so often that the hypaspists protected the right flank of the phalanx. RLF, for example:"The foot companions, some 10,000 strong, held sarissas at the ready in the centre, while their unshielded right flank was protected by the 3,000 shield-bearers, who in turn linked up with the aggressive right cavalry wing..."
Now, reading this, I understood it to mean that the shield bearers would stay put with the phalanx, which was why I was surprised when you said that some of them would stick with Alexander. Are you saying that just the agema would stick with the king, while the rest of the hypaspists would stick with the phalanx? Or do you mean the whole hypaspist corps would stick with the king?
The whole corps will have followed the king as much as was humanly possible. RLF is correct as far as he goes. It mattered little that the phalanx had a shielded side as they were unable to operate as did a hoplite.

The trick is to rid oneself of the precipitous gallops out to the right that the movie shows. It will have been a measured advance to the front and right - at a pace that the infantry could keep to. Thus the infantry line followrs the lead of the right. Alexander and the Companion Cavalry diving into an infantry line alone would not have won the day: the infantry had to follow as Arrian so clearly describes.
Paralus
Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους;
Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.

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Fiona
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Post by Fiona »

Paralus wrote: The whole corps will have followed the king as much as was humanly possible. RLF is correct as far as he goes. It mattered little that the phalanx had a shielded side as they were unable to operate as did a hoplite.
Ah, right, I see what you mean now.
Paralus wrote: The trick is to rid oneself of the precipitous gallops out to the right that the movie shows. It will have been a measured advance to the front and right - at a pace that the infantry could keep to. Thus the infantry line followrs the lead of the right. Alexander and the Companion Cavalry diving into an infantry line alone would not have won the day: the infantry had to follow as Arrian so clearly describes.
Ok, will try to get the precipitous gallop out of my head. Agreed, Arrian does indeed say clearly that infantry were involved, but I'd never have guessed from that, that it was the hypaspists, if you hadn't said, as I think he just says 'heavy infantry in that sector of the line'. Now to you, that's probably obvious who they'd have to be - I bet you're one of those people who can understand diagrams! - not to me. I need more words!
It reminds me of those computer manuals. The people who are clever enough to write the things can never explain things easily enough for the people who want to read them.
I mean Arrian, not you, btw. You are patience itself at explaining things, and I for one am very grateful.
All the best,
Fiona
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Post by Paralus »

Fiona wrote: The people who are clever enough to write the things can never explain things easily enough for the people who want to read them. I mean Arrian, not you, btw. You are patience itself at explaining things, and I for one am very grateful.
All the best,
Fiona
Oh my goodness! I shall have to put that into the scrapbook. I don't generally garner compliments round these here parts...perhaps I shall be given to removing my armour when online!

Sent you an email that might help draw the picture...literally.
Paralus
Ἐπὶ τοὺς πατέρας, ὦ κακαὶ κεφαλαί, τοὺς μετὰ Φιλίππου καὶ Ἀλεξάνδρου τὰ ὅλα κατειργασμένους;
Wicked men, you sin against your fathers, who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander.

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