pothos.org

It's late, so I only have time to post the link to something I just saw on RogueClassicism:

http://rogueclassicism.com/2009/09/23/t ... scendents/

Haven't even read it all myself, yet, but I have to sleep!

All the best

Hi Marcus,

It's always tragic when civilians are targeted during armed conflict. I think it's difficult to tell from the available information, whether the Greek aid worker was kidnapped because of his affiliation with the Kalash or to be used as a high-value bargaining chip to demand money and the release of prisoners being held by the Afghan/US government.

When I read the headline of the Telegraph article, I had to chase up the actual paper that they are using to claim that the Kalash are the "descendants of Alexander" (I guess they mean his army). I don't think the scientific studies conducted so far have shown much evidence for this.

There are a few populations in the region that claim kinship to Alexander. There were three previous papers that found no genetic evidence of any relationship between Alexander's army and any of these populations.

The fourth paper (the one linked to the RogueClassicism article) is saying that if there was any admixture, it was at very low levels. This suggestion is based on a mutation they found in two Kalash men - a mutation that has it's highest frequency in Macedonia. If this mutation did arrive from the Balkan region, it's not possible to determine when. Given the history of the region, it would also have been good if the paper had data on whether the mutation is present in Iran and surrounding regions, to account for the West Asia as a possible source of the mutation in the Kalash population.

So, RogueClassicism's statement that the Kalash's claims of being "descendants of Alexander" is backed up by genetic data is too simplistic for my taste. As you can see below, the authors of the study are much more careful with their conclusions.

Firasat [i]et al[/i] wrote:"It is worth emphasizing here that the chance of picking up rare events largely amplified by drift affecting a limited portion of the population can not be discounted. The genetic data alone do not tell us when the Balkan chromosomes arrived in Pakistan: it is necessary to turn to the historical record for this. There has been no known Greek admixture within the last few generations, but in addition to Alexander’s armies, the possibility of admixture between the Greek slaves who were brought to this region by Xerxes around one hundred and fifty years before Alexander’s arrival, and the local population, cannot be discounted. At that time Afghanistan and present day Pakistan were part of the Persian Empire. Nevertheless, Alexander’s army of 25,000-30,000 mercenary foot soldiers from Persia and West Asia and 5000-7000 Macedonian cavalry perhaps provides a more likely explanation because of their elite status and substantial political impact on the region."

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articl ... d=17047675

Semiramis wrote:The fourth paper (the one linked to the RogueClassicism article) is saying that if there was any admixture, it was at very low levels. This suggestion is based on a mutation they found in two Kalash men - a mutation that has it's highest frequency in Macedonia. If this mutation did arrive from the Balkan region, it's not possible to determine when. Given the history of the region, it would also have been good if the paper had data on whether the mutation is present in Iran and surrounding regions, to account for the West Asia as a possible source of the mutation in the Kalash population.

Well, indeed. What I find interesting is that, a few years ago, they did a DNA study of the people living in various areas of the UK that had experienced Viking settlement in the 8th-10th centuries, and were able to calculate the lines of descent from said Norsemen at high levels in many of those areas. But not in all, and not, if I recall correctly, a definitively high level of Scandinavian DNA.

When one considers the number of invaders that have swept through Afghanistan since Alexander's time, which was at least 1,000 years earlier than the Viking invasions of Britain, and the corresponding amount of "admixing" that one can infer went on, then I wonder how the Kalash can have remained so "purely" Macedonian as many claim. They can hardly have lived in such total isolation since the 3rd-2nd century BC that they didn't suffer an inordinate amount of death, destruction, and breeding with different peoples/races.

ATB

I think we're pretty much in agreement on this one Marcus. That area has been a crossroad for invasions, migrations and travels since pre-history. So, it was good that this paper clarified that they were only expecting a very small amount of DNA of (putatively) Macedonian origin in the Kalash, if any was to be found. The Telegraph article is the one that runs with the "descendants of Alexander" line.

There are classifications of human beings that are undeniably important socially (nationality, ethnicity, race, religion etc). Popular media usually seem to fall into the trap of assuming that these are of genetic significance also. As far as I know, it's not possible to categorise human beings into different groups such as races using genetic data.

I notice the newspaper article mentions the light hair and eye colour of some Kalash individuals. It fails to mention that this phenotype is common in the region among other populations as well. So the presence of these genes don't necessarily suggest European genetic input for the Kalash, making this portion of the article somewhat misleading.

One gets the feeling that they are more interested in generating a good wartime headline than bringing across the historical and scientific complexities of the region. Who would have thought?

I always find the claims made for DNA somewhat strained; yes you can match modern DNA to an individual - with rather less accuracy than fingerprint evidence - but wheer are we to find the ancient Macedonian DNA to make any comparison with modern populations? Certainly not in either modern Macedonia. I fear 'DNA' is nothing more than a buzz word to imply scientific evidence. Watching 'The Blood of the British' I was always amused that when there was no sign of Scandanavian DNA markers in the population of areas awash with Norse place-names, Scandanavian material culture, historical records of Viking settlement it was an indication that the invasions were a myth not that the DNA model was fatally flawed. Looking-Glass Science.