Taphoi wrote:Plutarch, Moralia 332A, has Alexander notionally addressing Diogenes the Cynic. He apologises that he will not behave like that Diogenes, but will instead "emulate diogenes-Heracles" and Perseus and Dionysus. That is to say he will be a Zeus-born Diogenes. (Unfortunately the Loeb translator has misunderstood the use of the epithet diogenes against Heracles, but it is obvious that it is used in the Homeric fashion to mean Zeus-born, because Heracles, Perseus and Dionysus are all prominent sons of Zeus and it is used in this way of Heracles and Dionysus in Curtius 8.10.1.)
First, here's the entire quote, for those who do not have it to hand:
But when he came to talk with Diogenes himself in Corinth, he was so awed and astounded with the life and the worth of the man that often, when remembrance of the philosopher came to him, he would say, "If I were not Alexander, I should be Diogenes," that is to say: "If I did not actively practise philosophy, I should apply myself to its theoretical pursuit." He did not say, "If I were not a king, I should be Diogenes," nor "If I were not rich and an Argead"; for he did not rank Fortune above Wisdom, nor a crown and royal purple above the philosopher's wallet and threadbare gown. But he said, "If I were not Alexander, I should be Diogenes"; that is to say: "If it were not my purpose to combine foreign things with things Greek, to traverse and civilize every continent, to search out the uttermost parts of land and sea, to push the bounds of Macedonia to the farthest Ocean, and to disseminate and shower the blessings of Greek justice and peace over every nation, I should not be content to sit quietly in the luxury of idle power, but I should emulate the frugality of Diogenes. But as things are, forgive me, Diogenes, that I imitate Heracles, and emulate Perseus, and follow in the footsteps of Dionysus, the divine author and progenitor of my family, and desire that victorious Greeks should dance again in India and revive the memory of the Bacchic revels among the savage mountain tribes beyond the Caucasus. Even there it is said that there are certain holy men, a law unto themselves, who follow a rigid gymnosophy and give all their time to God; they are more frugal than Diogenes since they have no need of a wallet. For they do not store up food, since they have it ever fresh and green from the earth; the flowing rivers give them drink and they have fallen leaves and grassy earth to lie upon. Because of me even those faraway sages shall come to know of Diogenes, and he of them. And I also, like Diogenes, must alter the standard of coinage and stamp foreign states with the impress of Greek government."
I've already noted that Dionysos and Herakles were Zeus-born, along with literally dozens of others, so that doesn't change or affect the debate. As for the rest of the above quote, it is, as you will note, all Plutarch's
interpretation of that one line. All Alexander is recorded as saying is "If I were not Alexander, I should be Diogenes". The rest begins with Plutarch's "that is to say..." which means you are interpreting Plutarch's interpretation when you say that Alexander was telling Diogenes he would be a Zeus-born Zeus-born, or a Diogenes Diogenes. (?)
Taphoi wrote:Then at Moralia 717C, Plutarch asserts that Alexander the King and Diogenes the Cynic died on the same day. There are about 10,000 days on which Diogenes might have died following his meeting with Alexander at Corinth, so the chance that this actually happened should be about 1 in 10,000. Alternatively, Plutarch has read somewhere that Diogenes (meaning Alexander) died on 10th June 323BC and has wrongly assumed that Diogenes the Cynic was meant.
Again the quote:
Plutarch’s Moralia. Volume IX. 717 C. (Table-Talk VIII. 1.)
Someone mentioned also the death of King Alexander and of Diogenes the Cynic, which took place on the same day.
So, Plutarch read someone's writings which said that the death of King Alexander AND of Diogenes the Cynic took place on the same day. How can Plutarch have wrongly assumed that Diogenes the Cynic was meant instead of Alexander when both names had been mentioned? Perhaps you will suggest that the original writer made the wrong assumption regarding
his information? FYI, here's info on the original writer:
Diogenes Laertius. Excerpt from Book VI. Chapter 2. 79
Demetrius in his work On Men of the Same Name asserts that on the same day on which Alexander died in Babylon Diogenes died in Corinth. He was an old man in the 113th Olympiad.
Hmm, on the same day Alexander died in Babylon Diogenes died in Corinth? Hard to confuse the two men given that the places of their deaths are also mentioned! The author of On Men of the Same Name (Sometimes called Poets and Writers of the Same Name, or People and Things of the Same Name) was Demetrius of Magnesia. And just incase you feel compelled to suggest that two of the "men of the same name" were Alexander and Diogenes and ask why else would be they be mentioned together, Alexander is also referenced by Demetrius when he writes about Hermias, Aristotle, Demetrius of Phalerum, and probably others who crossed Alexander's path (I'm too tired to investigate further today).
Best regards,