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The Gordian Knot
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 2:35 pm
by Tre
Another interesting story with two different endings. What Alexander did gives an interesting perspective into the psychology of the King.For those who wish to take the historical speculation to a higher level, please take the floor and offer your opinions.
Re: The Gordian Knot
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 3:18 pm
by Linda
I don't know about higher speculation but the story of Alexander cutting through the knot reminds me of the Star Trek episode/film where James T Kirk reprogrammmed the computer to beat it in a simulation exercise...he hated to lose. I always thought Kirk in the first Star Trek series was an Alexandrian character (wasn't some of the first 'slash' fiction supposed to have involved Kirk and Spock...although lets hope Hephaestion was slightly more toothsome than Leonard Nimoy). I adored Kirk when I was growing up, before Star Trek became such a big spin-odd thing, and William Shatner got fat. Didn't he play Alexander in an awful tv series. Does anyone have a copy? I would pay money...Linda
Re: The Gordian Knot
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2003 3:46 pm
by susan
An immediate reaction, without thinking overnight -
Alexander was a master of spin ( is this also an American term ?) In his early career most of the time he manoeuvred to be in a win-win situation, with public relations giving out the correct spin.
I've a hunch that this was Hephaistion's strength, not military or logistics - he looked after the Alexander image, and Alexander literally could not do without him - Hephaistion partly made the Alexander we read about.
I see Alexander cutting the Gordian knot as described - Alexander was nothing if not quick-thinking and versatile - he knew he had to achieve the result and just went a different way to achieve it. So - Alexander did it, Hephaistion cast it in a positive light and found or made up a few prophecies that matched.
Susan
Re: The Gordian Knot
Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2003 4:40 pm
by jan
I am on the side of he would not cheat, and thus slipped the knot down so that he could find the ends; thus, proving his mastery over the problem. Pulling the ends, he unraveled the knot.
Re: The Gordian Knot
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2003 4:46 am
by marcus
Actually, what I'd *really* like to know is: where else is the legend of the Gordian Knot documented? At one point I thought it was mentioned in Herodotus, but it doesn't appear to be.Rather stupidly I forgot to look it up in the Oxford Classical Dictionary at the weekend, and I won't be able to get to it again before next weekend... so if you happen to know, it will save me having to remember! :-)As for Alexander solving the riddle... I reckon he slashed through it with his sword.All the bestMarcus
Re: The Gordian Knot
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2003 5:47 am
by maciek
We really don't know how he did it but slashing the knot by his sword is really Alexander's way of doing things. Maciek
Re: The Gordian Knot
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2003 8:02 am
by susa
Well, looks like one of Hephaistion's main assignments was to ensure that Alexander would do the least possible amount of things he might come to regret afterwards. Alexander was basically impulsive on his responses to things, right? And well he was not always in the right.
Re: The Gordian Knot
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2003 9:40 am
by susan
Carrying on my previous posting - what do you think of Hephaistion as Peter Mandelson ?Susan
Re: The Gordian Knot
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2003 3:49 pm
by Linda
Or Alastair Campbell (the Prime Minister's press secretary, for non-UK people)? Campbell is a foul-mouthed bully and media manipulator. I prefer Alastair Campbell as a Hephaestion. He has a kind of rough charm, whereas Mandy.... shiver. I was pondering this the other day... the Pixodorus affair was a complete public relations disaster for Alexander, and a very ill-judged thing to do. Someone started giving Alexander good advice...perhaps he was badly advised at that time, and started doing things himself when he got more experience, but I have some sympathy for your view, Susan. I can imagine Alexander and Hephaestion talking over carefully, say, his response to Darius, honing the words so that they sound just the right note of lofty disdain and youthful charm. Perhaps...
Re: The Gordian Knot
Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2003 6:12 am
by marcus
For what it's worth, Linda, my takes on the Pixodarus affair and the Gordian knot are:Pixodarus - Ptolemy, Erigyius, Nearchus etc. informed Alexander what was going on, and suggested that he needed to do something about it. Their intention was probably that he confront Philip, not that he should contact Pixodarus directly; but Alexander, being the impetuous lad that he was, took it upon himself to by-pass Philip completely... with the well known consequences. So the friends' fault was in not being explicit about what they thought he should do, rather than that they actually advised the prince to go directly to Pixodarus.Gordian Knot - after considering the problem, some bright spark came up with the idea that one could take out the axle pin... hence the rise of that version of the story. But Alexander, again demonstration his no nonsense approach and impetuosity, thought it was too namby pamby, and sliced through the knot with his sword... hence the other version.Those are just my interpretations, of course. All the bestMarcus
Re: The Gordian Knot
Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2003 7:55 am
by yiannis
In my mind the story of the Gordian Knot (just like the story of Colombus Egg) demonstrates the ability of the protagonist to think and act out of the standards and with determination.
I'm not sure if the story is fact or fiction but it's an amazing marketing/advertisement act!
Re: The Gordian Knot
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2003 9:50 am
by agesilaos
Contra Marcus I prefer the namby-pamby removal of the pin solution since this is the story Aristoboulos tells he was probably there and as an engineer would be interested in such a problem. The sword-slashing one seems more like propaganda, either from Ptolemy - Alexander held Asia by right of his sword, just as the Succesors' kingdom are called 'spear-won land'- or from an anti-Alexander tradition which represents him as a simple thug whose answer to any problem is the sword.There may have been references to the tradition in the pages of lost histories of Persia by Cleitarchos' father or Ctesias.