The Souvaltzi Discovery - Any Record Of The Genuine Translations
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2022 6:33 am
I have been searching for information about Roman Era Siwah and came across the Souvaltzi affair. I've exhausted what has previously been discussed on this board about this topic, and in fact that's what brought me here.
Her dubious claim that her temple/tomb was Alexander's was firmly debunked by scholars who reviewed inscriptions she had discovered and declared them to not translate into the text she was presenting in her claims. However, there is no discussion of what the genuine translations were. Indeed it seems that the site has been minimally interesting and minimally investigated since. All I have gleaned is that this was a site built closer to the Roman Era.
My interest is for a rather obscure reason, from my own investigations which I record for posterity's sake at early writings. If there's interest at this forum, I can briefly elaborate in another post, but I am experimenting with a hypothesis which deals with how some Cyrenian Jews may have created their own sect (among many competitors) of messianic Judaism. I am wondering if this particular Cyrenian sect became the core of the Philonic, Markan and Pauline Christianity. That it migrated to Alexandria.
The basic premise is that Josephus's account of Alexander's visit to Jerusalem is dubious, but seems to go in parallel with Alexander's visit to Siwah. Josephus is arguing that the Jewish High Priest via the Book of Daniel prophesies of Alexander's victory in Persia. This is borrowed from what did happen at Siwah. So, the other parallel which is unspoken is that Alexander as son of Zeus-Hammon (who becomes the universal deus of the Hellenic world), would transpose to be recognized as son of Yahweh. In other words, something only Cyrenian Jews would first care about, is some effort to Judaize the syncretic spirit of Cyrene, and to perceive Amun of Siwah as in fact Yahweh himself. Therefore, to these specific Jews, Alexander's Siwan conversation with Ammon becomes a conversation with Yahweh, where the aspirational Hellenic peace of Alexander is derived from the prophecies about the Jewish people in Daniel. The rest of the story involves the Alexandrian Hellenized Jews conspiring with the Flavian dynasty, and this concept of Alexander's legacy as the fulfillment of Jewish prophecy is transposed onto the Roman empire, and the Pax Romana becomes the literal messianic era of Daniel.
That will probably sound totally outlandish to some of you, but much of it has been discussed in certain circles for years. The novel piece, which I am exploring involves Siwa.
I'm wondering if there was a locus among the Cyrenian Jews, perhaps a single family, which sought to develop a messianic sect (independent of the others), and specifically hoped to someday build up Siwa as a new Jewish temple or something to that effect. However, the vision of the sect was to promote Alexander the Great as the Son of God, using the legend of Siwa localized within Jewish prophecy.
If we think of Pharoah's esoteric identity as the world pillar of Egypt, the link between the land and the stars, then of course we can easily see deified Alexander as a panhellenic Logos. If we then interpret Philo's theological efforts as an attempt to transform Jewish theology into something which could serve a panhellenic audience (so that Jews can integrate their prophetic legacy with Alexander's), then we find a comfortable synthesis of these various ideas.
The key is seeing the competitive pressure between Jewish sects, and the existence of a locus which might give a sect some competitive advantage. Siwa serves as a holy site, and a neglected one at that - even by Alexander's time. One can perceive the notion of adopting the site for some ambitious family's New Jerusalem. The real advantage of a sect like this would be something paradoxical to Judaism - the integration of gentile proselytes and kingdoms into Judaism. And this is precisely what we see. An incipient movement to bring Judaism to gentiles and loosen its strictures, along with a reactionary movement that rejects it.
So, I'd like to investigate whether there's any Jewish influence at Siwa, from the Cyrenian community. If, to speculate, Souvaltzi's tomb was of this Jewish family (because they were the last patrons to even care about the site), then names and stated relationships could be profoundly useful clues. Without the context of the narrative I've painted, the names might seem generic.
Alternatively, if proto-Pauline thinking among Jews is derived from interpreting Alexander as the Logos of Yahweh, then it would be interesting to see if this particular view of Alexander shows up anywhere. I have already discussed that a limited form of it appears in Josephus.
Sorry for the lengthy elaboration (I could certainly go on). Mainly, just asking about Souvaltzi.
Her dubious claim that her temple/tomb was Alexander's was firmly debunked by scholars who reviewed inscriptions she had discovered and declared them to not translate into the text she was presenting in her claims. However, there is no discussion of what the genuine translations were. Indeed it seems that the site has been minimally interesting and minimally investigated since. All I have gleaned is that this was a site built closer to the Roman Era.
My interest is for a rather obscure reason, from my own investigations which I record for posterity's sake at early writings. If there's interest at this forum, I can briefly elaborate in another post, but I am experimenting with a hypothesis which deals with how some Cyrenian Jews may have created their own sect (among many competitors) of messianic Judaism. I am wondering if this particular Cyrenian sect became the core of the Philonic, Markan and Pauline Christianity. That it migrated to Alexandria.
The basic premise is that Josephus's account of Alexander's visit to Jerusalem is dubious, but seems to go in parallel with Alexander's visit to Siwah. Josephus is arguing that the Jewish High Priest via the Book of Daniel prophesies of Alexander's victory in Persia. This is borrowed from what did happen at Siwah. So, the other parallel which is unspoken is that Alexander as son of Zeus-Hammon (who becomes the universal deus of the Hellenic world), would transpose to be recognized as son of Yahweh. In other words, something only Cyrenian Jews would first care about, is some effort to Judaize the syncretic spirit of Cyrene, and to perceive Amun of Siwah as in fact Yahweh himself. Therefore, to these specific Jews, Alexander's Siwan conversation with Ammon becomes a conversation with Yahweh, where the aspirational Hellenic peace of Alexander is derived from the prophecies about the Jewish people in Daniel. The rest of the story involves the Alexandrian Hellenized Jews conspiring with the Flavian dynasty, and this concept of Alexander's legacy as the fulfillment of Jewish prophecy is transposed onto the Roman empire, and the Pax Romana becomes the literal messianic era of Daniel.
That will probably sound totally outlandish to some of you, but much of it has been discussed in certain circles for years. The novel piece, which I am exploring involves Siwa.
I'm wondering if there was a locus among the Cyrenian Jews, perhaps a single family, which sought to develop a messianic sect (independent of the others), and specifically hoped to someday build up Siwa as a new Jewish temple or something to that effect. However, the vision of the sect was to promote Alexander the Great as the Son of God, using the legend of Siwa localized within Jewish prophecy.
If we think of Pharoah's esoteric identity as the world pillar of Egypt, the link between the land and the stars, then of course we can easily see deified Alexander as a panhellenic Logos. If we then interpret Philo's theological efforts as an attempt to transform Jewish theology into something which could serve a panhellenic audience (so that Jews can integrate their prophetic legacy with Alexander's), then we find a comfortable synthesis of these various ideas.
The key is seeing the competitive pressure between Jewish sects, and the existence of a locus which might give a sect some competitive advantage. Siwa serves as a holy site, and a neglected one at that - even by Alexander's time. One can perceive the notion of adopting the site for some ambitious family's New Jerusalem. The real advantage of a sect like this would be something paradoxical to Judaism - the integration of gentile proselytes and kingdoms into Judaism. And this is precisely what we see. An incipient movement to bring Judaism to gentiles and loosen its strictures, along with a reactionary movement that rejects it.
So, I'd like to investigate whether there's any Jewish influence at Siwa, from the Cyrenian community. If, to speculate, Souvaltzi's tomb was of this Jewish family (because they were the last patrons to even care about the site), then names and stated relationships could be profoundly useful clues. Without the context of the narrative I've painted, the names might seem generic.
Alternatively, if proto-Pauline thinking among Jews is derived from interpreting Alexander as the Logos of Yahweh, then it would be interesting to see if this particular view of Alexander shows up anywhere. I have already discussed that a limited form of it appears in Josephus.
Sorry for the lengthy elaboration (I could certainly go on). Mainly, just asking about Souvaltzi.