Alexander's generals

[g]

Does anyone know who where Alexander's generals before he conquered Babylon?Where Perdicas and Hephaestion among them?

[jona]

Taking "general" as an officer with the ability and power to command independently, the most important general was Parmenion. Diodorus indicates that after the siege of Halicarnassus, there were, besides Alexander's army, armies (pl.), which suggest that there was at least one other general. A man named Philoxenos had an independent command after Gaugamela: he occupied Susa.If you take general simply as a high officer, the number increases. Perdiccas was certainly among these generals. Hephaestion rose to power at a later stage.Jona

[marcus]

ThatGÇÖs true GÇô it depends on what you mean by GÇÿgeneralsGÇÖ.In one respect Alexander only had one general, beside himself, and that was Parmenion, because he was the only one who commanded more than a battalion. (In modern terms Parmenion would probably be regarded as a brigadier-general, as opposed to a full general; but that probably doesnGÇÖt really convey his rank and comparisons between ancient and modern armies donGÇÖt really work.) The closest behind Parmenion were people such as Krateros, who effectively commanded three infantry battalions at Issos and Gaugamela (and possibly at the Graneikos), although he was still under ParmenionGÇÖs overall command in those battles. Then there were the battalion commanders (of which Krateros was one himself), including Koinos and Perdikkas, Nikanor (for the hypaspists), and Philotas (as overall commander of the hetairoi) GÇô I suppose they would be the equivalent of regimental colonels in todayGÇÖs army, rather than GÇÿgeneralsGÇÖ as we know of them. Beneath them were squadron and company commanders, the equivalent of captains in todayGÇÖs terms.Hephaistion was not given that sort of rank until 330, when he was given joint command of the hetairoi with Kleitos, following the death of Philotas. Prior to that he is not known to have held any battlefield command; however, he does appear to have been entrusted with some commands, including that of bridging the Euphrates in 331 GÇô not exactly the same as the modern Colonel of the Royal Engineers, but certainly holding some sort of equivalent rank temporarily.All the bestMarcus

[g]

Thank you guys

[beausefaless]

Some commands? You make it sound like Hephaistion was Alexander's pet monkey. Besides what you mentioned, he was in command of those very important logistics(Alexander's fleet) in the Mediterranean and the best liaison officer in Alexander's army, this is also a very important position I mean why fight someone if it's not necessary and Hephaistion appointed Abdalonymus king of that important port called Sidon which was a very good move amongst the locals. Didn't Hephaistion sacrificed at the tomb of Patroclus, Achilles' best friend -- a nice little allusion to their own friendship. While Hephaistion wasn't much of a strategist, it shouldn't be assumed that he couldn't fight. They're two different skills. Not all good fighters are good strategists, and not all great generals are good fighters. In Bactria, Hephaistion received more supply assignments. Then, after the fall of Philotas, he was given command of half the Companion Cavalry of course taken under Cleitus's wing but I think it's fair to say his fellow Hipparchs were theoretically his equals. He continued to excelled at logistics especially after the murder of Parmenion: getting supplies for the army; scouting new terrain; overseeing the construction of towns, forts and bridges. Did I already say he was also used for diplomacy?(negotiation with Persian aristocrats and Indian rajas).I realize you know all what I have said it's just that hardly anyone gives Hephaistion the credit he deserves.Regards,Andrew

[Halil]

Cheers, Andrew. A spot of sunshine in an otherwise dreary day.

[marcus]

Hi Andrew,Yep, there's a lot in what you say, although I don't recall that Hephaistion was ever in command of the fleet in the Mediterranean. Also, his friendship with Alexander is not under question here, nor is his fighting ability - I hope that I cast no aspersions on either in my post.However, my point was that Hephaistion did not have a senior 'fighting' command before 330 - which was in direct answer to the question originally posed, which concerned the officers of the army prior to the arrival at Babylon. On reflection, I probably slighted the whole 'engineer' corps unfairly, and at least insinuated that they weren't as important as the front line troops. Slapped wrist for me!Perhaps I appeared to treat Hephaistion a bit summarily, which was naughty. (However, that's my prejudice - I actually think he was probably quite a nasty piece of work, and much as I try to be objective... well, you know how it is )All the bestMarcus

[S]

Greetings Marcus,
"quite a nasty piece of work"? I would be interested to see how you arrived at that conclusion- I cannot see it myself. Nothing points in that direction more so than anyone else, and much less than many.
Regards,
Sikander

[marcus]

Ah, well, I never said he was any worse than the others, though... :-)I think I shall have to write a "why I think Hephaistion is a nasty piece of work" piece - not least because you're not the first to pick me up on my dislike of Hephaistion. All the bestMarcus

[alejandro]

Hi SikanderI am not going to defend MarcusGÇÖs position (I assume heGÇÖs old enough to defend himself well enough , but HeckelGÇÖs recollection of infighting/differences/problems amongst AlexanderGÇÖs marshals repeatedly presents Hephaistion as one of the main characters (vs. Philotas, vs Eumenes, etc), so he is not certainly GÇ£an angelGÇ¥.True, his closeness to Alexander could have generated jealousy and animosity amongst the big guns, so it hasnGÇÖt to be assumed heGÇÖs nastier than the rest simply because he quarrelled more, butGǪAs always, the (disappointingly vague) answer is GÇ£we have not enough evidenceGÇ¥, and so we should consider him GÇ£innocent unless proved otherwiseGÇ¥ ;)RegardsAlejandro

[beausefaless]

Alejandro,You make a very good point. Professor Zimmerman (University of Nebraska, Omaha) also states when Cleitus and Hephaistion finally came to blows, I mean they were beating the crap out of each other, Alexander caught wind of this crude form of dislike, as he broke up the fight he told them both stop or I'll kill both of ya. Due to the close lifetime friendship between Alexander and Hephaistion I believe physiologically this put Hephaistion (in his own mind) above Alexander's subordinates. This brings me back to the old poison theory since both of their deaths were not far apart.Forgive me Marcus, I couldn't help myself for my last sentence.

[S]

Greetings Alejandro,I understand what you are saying about Heckel, but I will go with the "innocent until proven guilty"- because I do not think there is enough written about *any* of these men to determine what their innate personalities were like.These were powerful men of ambition and certainly there were factions- and like today, there were those who "played both ends against the middle" or were better "politicians" than others- but I cannot see evidence for Hephaistion being any "nastier" than any other. If I recall (and my memory is vague here, so I might be in error), for example, the argument with Eumenes over the house was initially settled in Eu's favour, then Alexander changed his judgement. Many seem to assume this was due to H's "influence" (they also seem to assume certain things about the flute player, without having any information on this person)- but consider the possibility that Alexander's mind was changed after he learned all the facts- since the arguments ar enot presented in detail, there is some room for the possibility that there was good reason to move Eumenes out.As to Krateros, there is certainly nothing to convince a reader that he is a mild-mannered person, put upon by Hephaistion!I would not propose Hephaistion was an "angel"- but then, none of these men were.Regards,
Sikander

[beausefaless]

Hi Marcus,


I'm guilty of drifting off the subject at hand but I have an infatuation with the friendship of Alexander & Hephaistion (notice I didn't use the word between), since I can count the number of my close friends on one hand, sometimes I find myself trusting no one and suspecting everyone, I mean these two guys been through hell together off and on all their lives and I'm sure they had their feuds once in a great while but drunk or not they would always fall short of killing each other because of the reason I just stated, well, I'll guess there was more self control on Hephaistion's part than Alexanders. Either way neither one of em took any shit from anyone.


Sikander's post brings to mind another good reason to dub Alexander the Great. I mean really think about it, what a amazing job Alexander did to keep all these huge egos in line for ten to thirteen years directing them and his army through thick and thin, hell and high water. Just think if Parmenion was in control they never would have seen the Pyramids.


All the best


Andrew

[marcus]

He he! I like that, Andrew - if Parmenion had been in control they would never even have seen the Pyramids. Now that would be an interesting situation to speculate - how far would the army have gone if Parmenion *had* been in charge?Indeed, if it had been Alexander rather than Parmenion leading Philip's advance force, would he have been pushed back to the Hellespont by Memnon?All the bestMarcus

[marcus]

I hope that I haven't given the impression that I consider Hephaistion to have been, necessarily, a nastier piece of work than any of the others.On the other hand, for purely subjective reasons, I happen to sympathise more with the others - perhaps it's a reaction to what has generally been always quite a romaticised attitude towards Hephaistion.I have always been interested in what Eumenes and Hephaistion might have had against each other - I'm minded of the fact that Eumenes (amongst others) was moved to make exaggerated demonstrations of grief at Heph's death, lest Alexander suspect him - that a number of people felt it necessary to do this speaks volumes of their attitudes towards Hephaistion!All the bestMarcus