Oxyartes & Vakhshuvar

[susan]

I've found a possible reference to Oxyartes after Alexander's death; it's speculated that he may be the same as the satrap "Vakhshuvar" of the Parapamisidae 315-305 BC. He backed Eumenes in the struggles, and there's a coin of his that still exists. Can anyone (Jona, Cyrus?) shed any light on this - could Oxyartes be transcribed as Vakhshuvar?
Susan

[jona]

I once read that the correct rendering of Oxyartes' real name is Vax+íuvarda, which seems to be the same (more or less) as Vakhshuvar. The first syllable means "wild" or "untamed" and can also be found in the river that was called Oxus by the Macedonians. (It still has a tributary called Vaksh, in Uzbekistan.)Where did you find the reference to Vakshuvar?Jona

[susan]

I found the reference in a book in the basement library of SOAS in London. It could have been "Alexander the Great and Bactria -The Formation of a Greek Frontier in Central Asia " by Frank L. Holt or Tarn's "The Greeks in Bactria", but I didn't note down the author as I was in a hurry. There is a picture of the coin, which leads me to believe it might have been Holt. Maybe Andrew has come across it ?It described the close relationship between Darius I, Zoroaster & Bactria, and gave a genealogy - presumably you have this. It also described the geography of Alexander's attack: Hephaestion went up the Kizil-Su valley; Ptolemy along the Vakhsh; Perdiccas along the Kafirnigan; Coenus & Artabazus along the Surkhan-Darya and Alexander along the Oxus.I've also seen a reference to Oxyartes as Oroastres.There are some interesting-looking Russian books too, but I don't speak Russian.Susan

[jona]

Seems to be the book by Holt, I must have overlooked the reference. In my opinion (humble or not), Holt's book is among the very best publications of the past 30 years or so.Jona

[amyntoros]

You are surely correct about it being Holt, though I don't have the book to hand. (I *must* add this to my wish list!) Beth Carney gives reference to Holt's Alexander the Great and Bactria when she says, in Women and Monarchy in Macedonia:"Roxane's career was pathetic. Throughout her adult life she was in the power of a Macedonian male, often one indifferent or even hostile to her welfare and that of her son. Her father, having benefited from her marriage, continued his career more or less unaffected by the struggles of the Successors while his daughter lived on, apparently unconnected to her family, in the alien West."Best regards,Linda Ann

[susan]

It's possible that the reference to Oxyartes was in a different book from the other stuff about Darius; I was surprised that I'd not come across it before if it was that well-known. Susan

[marcus]

Totally agree! It's fantastic!Marcus

[ruthaki]

When you mentioned Oxyartes apparantly assisting Eumenes in the 'struggles', would this have been during the Second wars between the Successors when Euemenes was fighting against Antigonos??

[THE LIGHT 7000]

Hi Susan,......Recently some interesting topics are comming up... Once again, if you are talking about Aleksandar Makedonski- i.e. when you are " thinking" about Alexander The Great Makedonian, you should "think" about Makedonian language. WHY, symply because THAN and NOW MAKEDONIANS ARE MAKEDONIANS, so in MAKEDONIAN this means:VAKH/VASH=YOURS+SHUVAR/CHUVAR=KEEPER, so it make sense that Alexander was "murdered- assasinated.." by ..."keepers"... , same as today...All the best- The Light 700

[smittysmitty]

Hi Susan,Tarn also make reference to him in 'The Greeks in Bactria and India'.Not sure if itGÇÖs of value to you but I've copied out the relevant section for you.Pg 100-1: GÇÿWhen Alexander died, the satrap of the Paropamisadae was his father-in-law, the Bactrian Oxyartes; he must have become virtually independent during the wars of the Successors, though he or his successor finally accepted the overlordship of Seleucas. One of the best numismatic authorities on these eastern borderlands has held that the name Vakhsuvar on a famous coin dated in the year 83 of some era is a transcript of Oxyartes and that the era cannot be Seleucid*; (*Allote de la Fuye, Rev, Num. 1910 pp. 290 sqq., 1925 p. 31. There are other explanations for the word.)his deduction that Oxyartes founded a dynasty whose members all bore the same name and that this is a coin of the dynasty struck in a year between the limits 253 and 244 is very attractive, for such a dynasty has a certain probability in itself and would agree with Asoka's description. Another of AlexanderGÇÖs Iranian satraps, Atropates, founded a similar dynasty in Azerbaijan, 'Media of Atropates', which lasted long and at one time played some part in history; and there is another case beside that of Oxyartes where only a single coin remains to testify to a lost kingdom (p. 484). The Oxyartes dynasty (if it existed) must have remained Seleucid vassals down to the time of this coin, the time which saw the hand of the Seleucid slacken in the East and Asoka the Maurya at the height of power...pg 211: The Sun's quadriga had long been a feature of Greek art - it had its place on the Parthenon - and had already appeared in the Greek East on coins of Andragoras and Vakhsuvar (? Oxyartes). These coins, and especially that of Plato, supply one of the few instances (as opposed to assumptions) of a Greek artistic motive passing into Indian art through Bactria; they point the road which led to the relief on the Surya panel on a at Bodh Gaya, dating from one of the kings of the Sunga dynasty and perhaps therefore not much later than Plato, on which the 'Sun God' appears driving a four-horse chariot, manifestly copied from a Greek model...
Not sure if the extracts are much value on there own.
Cheers!

[susan]

Thanks for this. I've tried to get hold of an Uzbek expert in these coins,(Edvard Rtveladze) but so far without success; I think that it would be interesting to know of the current status of Sogdian research. Does anyone know of good people to contact ?Susan

[marcus]

That's all very well, but we're talking about a Persian name, not a Macedonian one. Or are we now saying that the Persians were Macedonian, too?All the bestMarcus

[THE LIGHT 7000]

...No...What it means is that Makedonia had influence in this region long time before Darius and Co. Real Persians had religion i.e. they were Zoroastrians.
Makedonians had simular cult- religion towards Sun, Zvezda/Zvizda/Zios/Zeus=Deus (Sun is Star). This word ZORA/ZORO means morning, down, so like OROSTRES, ORO=DANCE+STRES=LEADER OF THE DANCE, ZORO-A-STRES... menas somone/somewhat what brings morning, downs/ZORA, i.e. the SUN=SONCE=S'N-ce, and it is almost same with Budhism, i.e. BUDDHA=BUDI/BUDYA= AWAKEANING, one who is awakaning... That is why there are simularities between these... Alexander did, according to proofs, burnt AVESTA and temple. He did it maybe because this (AVESTA=A-VEST-A=A-NEWS-A),Avesta , this means news (...comming from Makedonia...), was nothing to do with original one, hundreds of years before, (maybe from brothers Persey-east and Makedon-west),and at that time it was full of idols etc., (so it was same with the Isus in the temple and later on Mohhamed with idols... Alexander like Isus was talking about one God as Father!..), Alexander did nothing with pyramids and other religious and other cultural- important things, but showing respect and preserved them... So again, there are many simularities from long time before Alexander, so strict "border" between this and that is imposible until everyone is recognised and have a word in the World cultural heritage as equal...With respect- The Light 7000

[marcus]

Oh, come on. You now seem to be arguing that the Persian language has its roots in Macedonian.

[THE LIGHT 7000]

...Well, not so "directly", and with not so "strong" description, maybe with some "softer tone" and other words, more "softer language" could be used in this situation, but on the end it will be the same as was stated, so...... it will take some time, but you will find out and learn somthing more about this topic i.e. the fact that first alphabet is orginating from ancient Makedonia, and there are strong proofs about it, (articles already published, like "...Makedonia is competing Mesopotamia..., etc"), however politisation of everything is not allowing one to discuss it in, let's say, in more intelectual manner and way ... We need more relexed athmosphere,
so patients my friend...With respect- The light 7000