Continue from "Justin's book"

[John]

Maciek,Your translator said 6 years; mine said five. There's a lesson here: Beware of translators!You think I'm kidding? The translator I used at the top of this thread for Justin's account of Alexander's poisoning Was John Selby Watson (1853).This translator, John Selby Watson, himself took poison (prussic acid), after beating his wife to death with the butt of his gun. At his trial, he pleaded insanity... No joke. It's true! Here's a link:http://www.microwaredata.co.uk/murder_u ... .htmlMaybe I should get a newer translation of Justin, with a different translator!John

[John]

Let's see if I can get it right this time...http://www.microwaredata.co.uk/murder-u ... 0.htmlJohn

[maciek]

Right I didn't know about his suicide - I love to read ancient authors but translation is very importand - As in amazon.com they sale few Arrian's books and I was very close to buy it all and then I realized that it's only a different translations. Much diferent it's true but still all from one source. As I said I love to read ancient sources but not in such old translation.Maciek

[John]

Well, it was an ATTEMPTED suicide. He succeeded in killing his wife, but not himself.As far as Greek translators go, I have no problem, since I can read the Greek myself, but Justin wrote in latin, so I need a translator for him.John

[maciek]

Oh so You read greek language? I'm impressed! I want to learn it but now working and same time studing takes all my time. Althrough I want just to start learning greek to read in orginal all those books.Maciek

[susan]

I've just thought of another possible reason for Crateros' delay - he took with him Amastris, his Persian wife ( and niece of Darius) whom he married in June 324. Before he married Phila he divorced Amastris and married her to the ruler of Heraclea Pontica, on the Black Sea - so it was very likely that she was with him on the journey to Macedonia. Suppose Amastris became pregnant soon after her marriage to Crateros - travelling would be difficult after the winter, especially through mountainous areas, and because of her high status she could probably not be left along the route.So, this would be another reason for delay - speculation, I know, but male historians generally left out any mention of matters like these.I think Amastris was about the only high-ranking Achaemenid that survived the purges; she later married Lysimachus for a short time in 302.Susan

[John]

Susa,You made me think.Could anyone really argue with Alexander, or would he end up like Cleitus if he did? - Or J. S. Watson's wife? (See my "translator" posts above.)John

[susan]

yes, Hephaestion could, and Olympias, and probably Crateros

[susan]

yes, Hephaestion could, and Olympias, and probably Crateros

[John]

I see Craterus as too reserved to argue with Alexander - like Ptolemy, keeping what he was thinking to himself.Olympias, of course, spoke her mind to Alexander.Hephaistion was even allowed to speak his mind to Olympias. What did he say to Olympias, "Don't be so upset with us. You know Alexander means more to us than anything."Of course, the next time Hephaistion read a letter to Alexander from Olympias, Alexander put his seal to his lips. Meaning, "Keep it zipped, Hephaistion." "OK, Alexander. My lips are sealed."John

[marcus]

Hi Susan,I think that all sounds rather plausible.And Amastris might well have been one of the only Persian 'survivors' - except for Apama, who was married to Seleucus, and who had cities named after her and whose son Antiochus succeeded Seleucus. But other than Apama, I think that every other wife (of the important people, anyway) was ditched pretty soon after Alexander died. Amastris will have been the only one to have been used as a political pawn, though.All the bestMarcus

[susa]

Hi JohnI never really understood that business about the seal. I liked your interpretation.... "Look here, fella, you'd better keep yr mouth shut, or next time i'll have to seal it with red-hot wax. And you know very well i do mean it." Does this mean Hep was a tattler?:)

I think his friends could speak their minds to him, unless no ofense was meant, or abuse. I think he'd listen....What happened to Kleitos was the result of insulting/arrogant words in public. Tell me - who can tolerate an insult? And he being the king? And being so explosive? "Off with his head!!" , right? susa

[John]

Susa!Maybe that's how Olympias felt towards Hephaistion (hot wax?!). I think Alexander was a little friendlier towards him. I don't think Alexander liked Hephaistion setting Olympias off, though. Here's something out of Diodorus:"As a matter of fact, Hephaistion enjoyed so much power and freedom of speech based on this friendship that when Olympias was estranged from him because of jealousy and wrote sharp criticisms and threats against him in her letters, he felt strong enough to answer her reproachfully and ended his letter as follows: 'Stop quarrelling with us and do not be angry or menacing. If you persist, we shall not be much disturbed. You know that Alexander means more to us than anything.'"John

[Tre]

I'd say any one of his friends, officers, bodyguard or family. However, there's insulting (which is what Cleitus did) and there's disagreements. No King would tolerate the former.

[susa]

Oh, sorry, John. I apologise for my bad english. With 'red hot wax' i meant that stamp that people from the 19th century [was it?] sealed their letters... red wax burnt to close letters.... I expressed myself poorly.... I wonder if by Alex's time they used that kind of wax too?As for the letter Hephaistion wrote to Olympias, it was quite arrogant, no? Oh, that guy must have been too self-assured, writing that way to the Queen Mother.... And he used 'we' instead of 'i' --- good gracious!! What a pompous fellow!! And he menaced Olympias!!! I wonder how she reacted reading that!!! She probably teared the letter to pieces and stamped at it [pun was coincidence].The question is: Alexander granted this kind of behaviour to Hep because Hep was older than Alex? What do you think? Or because Alexander thought Hephaistion was right all the time, being the elder one? Or perhaps because being rude was Hep's temperament, and then Alex would live him alone? And then Hep would have to take the consequences alone? What do you think? There must have an explanation!susa