Alexander the Great museum to be created

[Paralus]

Indeed madam! The hide, the hide.

I do, though, fell the tug of an impending symposium tonight.

"Ancient" may well be the word tomorrow.

[marcus]

The schools here concentrate on WWI and WWII and barely mention Vietnam or Desert Storm. I think there needs to be a re-vamping of what our schools teach. Recent history is not more important than ancient history.

Too much WWI and WWII in British schools as well!

But I am teaching Vietnam - and of course the students are getting interested by the parallels with Iraq ...

ATB

[Theseus]

The schools here concentrate on WWI and WWII and barely mention Vietnam or Desert Storm. I think there needs to be a re-vamping of what our schools teach. Recent history is not more important than ancient history.

Too much WWI and WWII in British schools as well!

But I am teaching Vietnam - and of course the students are getting interested by the parallels with Iraq ...

ATB

I'm so glad to hear that your students are interested in the Vietnam war. I was just a baby in the early 70's but my parents had friends serve over there and I saw the Vietnam War memorial when I lived in Washington DC. I think the soldiers that fought over there and the current war deserve so much appreciation for what they went through, wether we believe in the reason we are at war or not. We have several friends that are serving or have served in the Iraq/Afghanistan war and mostly they are getting the respect they deserve out here in the midwest. In fact our masts are at half staff in our state due to a soldier that lost his life in the war recently.

!!!!Me and my better half are having a disagreement on something with Alexander. I guess some "specialist" was on sirius radio today talking about Alexander the Great and said he had 20 male lovers/husbands. I know Alexander had many lovers but I don't think it's written in the classics that he had more than Hephaestion and Bagoas or is it? Can any of you help with this?!!!!!!People are so closed minded to how things were back then. I tried explaining that it was normal back then to have both male and female lovers, but it's like talking to a brick wall.

[Phoebus]

Hooo, boy. Touchy subject.

This website has a nice exposition on the subject, and I think it's a rather objective one.

[Semiramis]

!!!!Me and my better half are having a disagreement on something with Alexander. I guess some "specialist" was on sirius radio today talking about Alexander the Great and said he had 20 male lovers/husbands. I know Alexander had many lovers but I don't think it's written in the classics that he had more than Hephaestion and Bagoas or is it? Can any of you help with this?!!!!!!People are so closed minded to how things were back then. I tried explaining that it was normal back then to have both male and female lovers, but it's like talking to a brick wall.

Hi Theseus,

Out of males, sources mention Bagoas and Euxenippus as lovers. Euxennipus was a Greek boy, at the "flower of his youth". He's mentioned because Alexander has him greet a delegation (from memory). Apparently, while he was as good looking as Hephaistion, he was not as manly as philaleksandros. Whether Hephaistion was actually a lover, your guess is as good as mine. Maybe they were talking about wrestling when they mentioned Hephaistion's thighs ruling over Alexander.

For females, you have his wives. Out of whom Roxanne bore him the son Alexander. There's his mistress Barsine, who also bore him the son Heracles. There's the courtesan Campaspe, who he apparently gifted to the painter who fell in love with her while painting her.

Thanks to modern day politics, we have his refusal of slave boys as gifts from Greeks as cited as "proof" that he didn't like males. We also have stories of his refusal to sleep with a courtesan that his parents hired when he was young brought up as evidence that he shunned females. I don't buy either.

There's his blinding praise by Plutarch because he didn't shag a servant girl who he was quite taken with. Cursed loudly upon finding out the fact that she belonged a friend and ordered that she be put out of his sight! So, while he didn't have sex on the brain all the time, contrary to some schools of thought, I believe he did have a sex drive. And that he liked both men and women. No biggy back in the days, so did daddy dear, not to mention Achillles. Neither monogamy nor sexual identity are concepts he would've given a thought to.

Perhaps strangely given his cultural background, he slept with at least one eunuch. It seemed to be a long-standing thing too. I always thought the Greeks believed that mutilating the body was an awful thing. Then again, were Macedonians "Greek" in all of their ideas? Or perhaps there is more to the charge of Alexander's "Orientalizing" charge than just pragmatism? Anyway, how many people actually adhere to the "norms" of their culture when it comes to sexuality?

I also like the story about the harem girls (eunuchs too?) parading for him to choose from. All up, sounds like he had it pretty good. But these lovers only got mentioned in history because there was some reason for it. There must've been many more. 20 male lovers is probably at the low end of guesses... with that infinite supply of adoring pages and harem eunuchs.

Take care

[Theseus]

Thank you for responding. I do recall the stories you mentioned as well. I guess what really got me angry was how these people on Sirius were referring to Alexander the great with disrespect in my opinion and also that they didn't seem to have a clue what they were talking about. They said Alexander had 20 husbands/male lovers and from all I've read from Plutarch/Arrian and other sources Alexander yes was human but he controlled himself quite well. He was so busy conquering I don't think sex was the main thing on his mind. He was angered by the offer to purchase male slaves for sex, he restrained himself from other men's beautiful women. Also they were trying to put him as a stereotypical gay male and how can they do that being times were different back then. Yes it was not widely accepted to continue a male lover relationship into your 20's, but it wasn't unheard of either. It just shows how closed minded people are today and judge things to today's ways and don't consider alternatives being this was thousands of years ago and not out of the norm.

[marcus]

Thank you for responding. I do recall the stories you mentioned as well. I guess what really got me angry was how these people on Sirius were referring to Alexander the great with disrespect in my opinion and also that they didn't seem to have a clue what they were talking about. They said Alexander had 20 husbands/male lovers and from all I've read from Plutarch/Arrian and other sources Alexander yes was human but he controlled himself quite well. He was so busy conquering I don't think sex was the main thing on his mind. He was angered by the offer to purchase male slaves for sex, he restrained himself from other men's beautiful women. Also they were trying to put him as a stereotypical gay male and how can they do that being times were different back then. Yes it was not widely accepted to continue a male lover relationship into your 20's, but it wasn't unheard of either. It just shows how closed minded people are today and judge things to today's ways and don't consider alternatives being this was thousands of years ago and not out of the norm.

Well, irrespective of his sexuality - and please don't let this thread turn into another argument about that; there are plenty of other threads where the question has been thrashed out ad nauseam - he certainly didn't have 20 (of either sex, or combined) that are in any way mentioned in the sources).

ATB

[Theseus]

Well, irrespective of his sexuality - and please don't let this thread turn into another argument about that; there are plenty of other threads where the question has been thrashed out ad nauseam - he certainly didn't have 20 (of either sex, or combined) that are in any way mentioned in the sources).

ATB

sorry I went off topic a bit.

[marcus]

Well, irrespective of his sexuality - and please don't let this thread turn into another argument about that; there are plenty of other threads where the question has been thrashed out ad nauseam - he certainly didn't have 20 (of either sex, or combined) that are in any way mentioned in the sources).

ATB

sorry I went off topic a bit.

There isn't a rule about going "off topic", so no worries there. It's just that, if you look at past threads, any mention of Alexander's sexuality tends to set off various people, and usually some things are said that are better left unsaid ...

ATB

[ruthaki]

Yes, Pella has a small but very interesting museum which I've visited on several occasions. So if they are expanding and adding new finds that will be excellent. I would imagine they have new finds from the site of the ancient acropolis hill where the palace was situated. It's been closed to the public both the last times I was in Pella. I will look forward to this new museum opening and you can bet I'll be there to see it. The one at Vergina for the royal tombs is a wonder!

[Theseus]

Yes, Pella has a small but very interesting museum which I've visited on several occasions. So if they are expanding and adding new finds that will be excellent. I would imagine they have new finds from the site of the ancient acropolis hill where the palace was situated. It's been closed to the public both the last times I was in Pella. I will look forward to this new museum opening and you can bet I'll be there to see it. The one at Vergina for the royal tombs is a wonder!

If you are able to take pictures when you go, please post some here! I'm not lucky enough to travel over seas so I'd love to see anything from Greece that you find interesting. I was lucky enough to catch the King Tut exhibit in Philadelphia which is on loan from Egypt. It was a chance of a lifetime to be able to see the artifacts with this exhibit. To see things in person that you've only seen in books or magazines left me in awe.

[ruthaki]

If I can figure out how to post pix here I would. I tried putting up a wee pix to illustrate my name but my jpegs were all too large! Maybe if I have time I'll put some up on my travel blog later and will let you know then you can go look at them there. (Trouble is, I'd have to scan them first as I didn't have a digital camera the times i was there.)

[Theseus]

If I can figure out how to post pix here I would. I tried putting up a wee pix to illustrate my name but my jpegs were all too large! Maybe if I have time I'll put some up on my travel blog later and will let you know then you can go look at them there. (Trouble is, I'd have to scan them first as I didn't have a digital camera the times i was there.)

Oh the days before digital cameras, what did we do before that?! I was one of those people that dragged my feet about getting one, but now love it. I too have taken so many pictures with my trusty 35mm picture and had to do the same thing, scan... .... It takes so much time and effort! I understand it will take some time to get done.

If you ever do get them scanned please do let me know because I would be really greatful and would love to see them. You can send me a pm if you want. I have a book on the tombs found in Greece and can't imagine seeing some of it in person.
I thought they were going to have to kick me out of the King Tut exhibit for taking so much time lingering and staring at the artifacts.
Amazing experience isn't it?

[ruthaki]

Kali mera, I also have some photos of the tombs (but only from the outside) You can't imagine how fantastic that new museum of the tombs is! I saw all the finds first in the Museum at Thessaloniki. Then when the tombs first opened I went down and cried in front of the tomb supposed to be Philip's and also the 'Prince's" tomb believed to be Alexander Vi's. But next time I went they museum was completed with all the finds and those from Thessaloniki transferred there. It is truly an astounding place! So if they do anything half as spectacular for the new Alexander museum it will certainly be a thrill to see.

[Vergina Sun]

Kali mera, I also have some photos of the tombs (but only from the outside) You can't imagine how fantastic that new museum of the tombs is! I saw all the finds first in the Museum at Thessaloniki. Then when the tombs first opened I went down and cried in front of the tomb supposed to be Philip's and also the 'Prince's" tomb believed to be Alexander Vi's. But next time I went they museum was completed with all the finds and those from Thessaloniki transferred there. It is truly an astounding place! So if they do anything half as spectacular for the new Alexander museum it will certainly be a thrill to see.

Oh, your descriptions have now caused me to bother my parents until they take me there!