alexanders visit to Troy

[spitamenes]

Did Alexander visit Heinrich Schliemanns(incorrect spelling) city of Troy? Or was it probably just an area said by locals to be where Troy once stood? I could see local people claiming an area was Troy just as a 'themepark' style moneymaker situation. "Oh sure, we know where Troy is, give us twenty bucks and well show ya", "and over here to your left is where Achilles defeated Hector!" (Oooh's and ahhhh's all around.) I know he supposedly traded his shield for Achilles' but Id think that was just something left as an offering by an earlier ticket buying patron. Has anyone looked into this with any depth?
All the best.

[amyntoros]

The Harvard University Center for Hellenic Studies had a colloquium a few years ago and their online journal for this event includes the following article - "Jonathan S. Burgess, The Homerizon: Conceptual Interrogations in Homeric Studies, Tumuli of Achilles, http://chs.harvard.edu/publications.sec/classics.ssp. Center for Hellenic Studies, Washington, D.C.. 2007."

You should be able to go directly to the article here. Lots of interesting stuff about ancient localizations as well as localizations in post antiquity, ancient visitations, etc.

Best regards

[athenas owl]

Did Alexander visit Heinrich Schliemanns(incorrect spelling) city of Troy? Or was it probably just an area said by locals to be where Troy once stood? I could see local people claiming an area was Troy just as a 'themepark' style moneymaker situation. "Oh sure, we know where Troy is, give us twenty bucks and well show ya", "and over here to your left is where Achilles defeated Hector!" (Oooh's and ahhhh's all around.) I know he supposedly traded his shield for Achilles' but Id think that was just something left as an offering by an earlier ticket buying patron. Has anyone looked into this with any depth?
All the best.

Amyntoros gave an excellent, constructive response.

Sadly, as I find myself far too unserious these days...I thought of Disneyland vs. Disneyworld in Orlando, across the country. And the image of Alexander leaving either the original Disneyland or Disneyworld wearing a souvenir Mouse-ear hat. Clearly I need to get back into the spirit of things.

Somewhat seriously, though, isn't there evidence that a Hellenistic city, Lysimachus, was built precisely there because it was recognised as Troy?

[spitamenes]

Did Alexander visit Heinrich Schliemanns(incorrect spelling) city of Troy? Or was it probably just an area said by locals to be where Troy once stood? I could see local people claiming an area was Troy just as a 'themepark' style moneymaker situation. "Oh sure, we know where Troy is, give us twenty bucks and well show ya", "and over here to your left is where Achilles defeated Hector!" (Oooh's and ahhhh's all around.) I know he supposedly traded his shield for Achilles' but Id think that was just something left as an offering by an earlier ticket buying patron. Has anyone looked into this with any depth?
All the best.

Amyntoros gave an excellent, constructive response.

Sadly, as I find myself far too unserious these days...I thought of Disneyland vs. Disneyworld in Orlando, across the country. And the image of Alexander leaving either the original Disneyland or Disneyworld wearing a souvenir Mouse-ear hat. Clearly I need to get back into the spirit of things.

Somewhat seriously, though, isn't there evidence that a Hellenistic city, Lysimachus, was built precisely there because it was recognised as Troy?

Ha! My mind started goin a bit too. Wondering if the Macedonians would splurge on season passes even though they were only passing through.

[spitamenes]

The Harvard University Center for Hellenic Studies had a colloquium a few years ago and their online journal for this event includes the following article - "Jonathan S. Burgess, The Homerizon: Conceptual Interrogations in Homeric Studies, Tumuli of Achilles, http://chs.harvard.edu/publications.sec/classics.ssp. Center for Hellenic Studies, Washington, D.C.. 2007."

You should be able to go directly to the article here. Lots of interesting stuff about ancient localizations as well as localizations in post antiquity, ancient visitations, etc.

Best regards

Amyntoros,
Thank you for this. Great article! Full of good info.

[marcus]

Did Alexander visit Heinrich Schliemanns(incorrect spelling) city of Troy? Or was it probably just an area said by locals to be where Troy once stood? I could see local people claiming an area was Troy just as a 'themepark' style moneymaker situation. "Oh sure, we know where Troy is, give us twenty bucks and well show ya", "and over here to your left is where Achilles defeated Hector!" (Oooh's and ahhhh's all around.) I know he supposedly traded his shield for Achilles' but Id think that was just something left as an offering by an earlier ticket buying patron. Has anyone looked into this with any depth?
All the best.

Well, they certainly knew roughly where Troy was supposed to be, as there had been continuous settlement there for centuries. It was a bit of a shadow of its former self by the time Alexander visited, of course.

What interests me most is the idea that the tumuli of Achilles and the others heroes were supposed to be in relation to the city. I will be going to Troy (finally) on around 10 August, and you can bet your bottom dollar that I shall be investigating this fully when I am there. I shall, of course, report my findings on this august forum ...

ATB

[Paralus]

Somewhat seriously, though, isn't there evidence that a Hellenistic city, Lysimachus, was built precisely there because it was recognised as Troy?

I'm assuming you meant Lysimacheia? If so, Lysimacheia was founded in 309. It was in the strageic region at the top of the "neck" of the Gallipoli Peninsular and near to Eumemes' home town of Cardia which Lysimachus had destroyed. Indeed the people from Cardia were settled here.

Paus. 1.9.8
Possibly Hieronymus had grievances against Lysimachus, especially his destroying the city of the Cardians and founding Lysimachea in its stead on the isthmus of the Thracian Chersonesus.

Diodorus mentions this in passing (20.29.1) and the Parian Marble (s19) confirms the founding and date.

And the image of Alexander leaving either the original Disneyland or Disneyworld wearing a souvenir Mouse-ear hat.

Disneyland? Alexander was a Macedonian king. Perhaps the adult theme park "Liquorland" might be more to the point?

[athenas owl]

Paralus, no...I wasn't referring to Lysimacheia.

Lysimachus rebuilt the Temple of Athena, Troy VIII-ish...which again, if memeory serves, parts of it, at least were leveled off by the Romans to create their own version IX or X (no books handy here). But it wasn't just a temple, Lysimachus helped create a revitialised Troy I'd have to go look it up to be sure.

Heh, from what I've heard, one can get booze at the Disney places as well. Got to keep the grown ups happy, or sedated at least.

[Paralus]

Paralus, no...I wasn't referring to Lysimacheia.

Lysimachus rebuilt the Temple of Athena, Troy VIII-ish...

Ahh, that temple. Strabo 13.1.26...

It is said that the city of the present Ilians was for a time a mere village, having its temple of Athena, a small and cheap temple, but that when Alexander went up there after his victory at the Granicus1 River he adorned the temple with votive offerings, gave the village the title of city, and ordered those in charge to improve it with buildings, and that he adjudged it free and exempt from tribute; and that later, after the overthrow of the Persians, he sent down a kindly letter to the place, promising to make a great city of it, and to build a magnificent sanctuary, and to proclaim sacred games. But after his death Lysimachus devoted special attention to the city, and built a temple there and surrounded the city with a wall about forty stadia in circuit, and also incorporated into it the surrounding cities, which were now old and in bad plight. At that time he had already devoted attention to Alexandreia, which had indeed already been founded by Antigonus and called Antigonia, but had changed its name, for it was thought to be a pious thing for the successors of Alexander to found cities bearing his name before they founded cities bearing their own. And indeed the city endured and grew, and at present it not only has received a colony of Romans but is one of the notable cities of the world.

[spitamenes]

Did Alexander visit Heinrich Schliemanns(incorrect spelling) city of Troy? Or was it probably just an area said by locals to be where Troy once stood? I could see local people claiming an area was Troy just as a 'themepark' style moneymaker situation. "Oh sure, we know where Troy is, give us twenty bucks and well show ya", "and over here to your left is where Achilles defeated Hector!" (Oooh's and ahhhh's all around.) I know he supposedly traded his shield for Achilles' but Id think that was just something left as an offering by an earlier ticket buying patron. Has anyone looked into this with any depth?
All the best.

Well, they certainly knew roughly where Troy was supposed to be, as there had been continuous settlement there for centuries. It was a bit of a shadow of its former self by the time Alexander visited, of course.

What interests me most is the idea that the tumuli of Achilles and the others heroes were supposed to be in relation to the city. I will be going to Troy (finally) on around 10 August, and you can bet your bottom dollar that I shall be investigating this fully when I am there. I shall, of course, report my findings on this august forum ...

ATB

Marcus, please do! That is great you will be getting to go there soon! I've been close but was stuck on a ship, also happened when I was in Naples, I've wanted to visit Pompeii for years. I was a stones throw away and couldn't leave base. Such a shame. Good luck with your trip.
All the best

[marcus]

What interests me most is the idea that the tumuli of Achilles and the others heroes were supposed to be in relation to the city. I will be going to Troy (finally) on around 10 August, and you can bet your bottom dollar that I shall be investigating this fully when I am there. I shall, of course, report my findings on this august forum ...

ATB

Marcus, please do! That is great you will be getting to go there soon! I've been close but was stuck on a ship, also happened when I was in Naples, I've wanted to visit Pompeii for years. I was a stones throw away and couldn't leave base. Such a shame. Good luck with your trip.
All the best

It will be interesting to see how clearly defined the various levels are, as I am as interested in identifying any 4th century BC remains as I am interested in seeing Troy VI, the Trojan War one. But the tombs are the big draw - I am under the impression that there *aren't* any identifiable tombs there ... in which case, what did Alexander run round?

All will, hopefully, be revealed, and photos will be posted ...

ATB

[spitamenes]

That's great to hear Marcus! Supposedly your able to see the charred areas where the city burnt at the end of the trojan war(?). And the Achilles tomb (or lack of) is another reason why I'm wondering if the locals just put up a little 'show' for over eager greeks looking for Homers Troy. We of course will never know, but I think its possible. I remember hearing when Alexander was shown one of the rivers mentioned in the Iliad and it was but a trickle of water he could just jump across.(something to that extent). I think ill do a bit more digging on Shiemanns Troy, Id like to find out when they believe the last time it was populated. If it was even at all visible during Alexanders day, or had already been covered by time. It looks like it would have been just a big hill when Shliemann decided to rip a big trench through the middle. How the archeology process has changed since then!

All the best...
Spitamenes