Maybe the love of ancient history is surfacing again?!

[Theseus]

I know I have discussed this with some of you here, about how it seems that the schools and colleges in the USA are not teaching ancient history as much as in the past. I still feel this way, but had a glimmer of hope this week. My daughter is learning about ancient history this year and they are finally touching on Alexander. I was shocked when she told me that they only had a couple of pages on Alexander. I was pleasantly surprised though when her teacher asked me to type up some facts on Alexander for her to read to my daughter's class. I was more than happy to do this for her! The text book barely mentions anything in detail of Alexander's life and it's such a shame that the teaching tools these teachers have to work with are insufficient. It's just a good feeling that maybe I can spread more information and maybe even spark an interest in some of these kids with ancient history.
Some of the things I wrote about were the battle at Chaeronea, taming of Bucephalus, becomming king at a young age, his conquests, death, aftermath ect...
It's a shame the teachers don't have the resources they need to be able to teach ancient history more in depth than two pages on Alexander the Great!

[marcus]

I know I have discussed this with some of you here, about how it seems that the schools and colleges in the USA are not teaching ancient history as much as in the past. I still feel this way, but had a glimmer of hope this week. My daughter is learning about ancient history this year and they are finally touching on Alexander. I was shocked when she told me that they only had a couple of pages on Alexander. I was pleasantly surprised though when her teacher asked me to type up some facts on Alexander for her to read to my daughter's class. I was more than happy to do this for her! The text book barely mentions anything in detail of Alexander's life and it's such a shame that the teaching tools these teachers have to work with are insufficient. It's just a good feeling that maybe I can spread more information and maybe even spark an interest in some of these kids with ancient history.
Some of the things I wrote about were the battle at Chaeronea, taming of Bucephalus, becomming king at a young age, his conquests, death, aftermath ect...
It's a shame the teachers don't have the resources they need to be able to teach ancient history more in depth than two pages on Alexander the Great!

Then again, I was browsing a website of teaching resources today, and thought I'd have a go at the "Ancient Greek quiz" that some teacher had created. There were 4 questions on Alexander, and three of the "correct" answers were incorrect. The "teachers" had also spelled Peloponnesian incorrectly. It's only worth teaching Ancient History if the teachers actually have the foggiest idea what they're talking about!

ATB

[Theseus]

I know I have discussed this with some of you here, about how it seems that the schools and colleges in the USA are not teaching ancient history as much as in the past. I still feel this way, but had a glimmer of hope this week. My daughter is learning about ancient history this year and they are finally touching on Alexander. I was shocked when she told me that they only had a couple of pages on Alexander. I was pleasantly surprised though when her teacher asked me to type up some facts on Alexander for her to read to my daughter's class. I was more than happy to do this for her! The text book barely mentions anything in detail of Alexander's life and it's such a shame that the teaching tools these teachers have to work with are insufficient. It's just a good feeling that maybe I can spread more information and maybe even spark an interest in some of these kids with ancient history.
Some of the things I wrote about were the battle at Chaeronea, taming of Bucephalus, becomming king at a young age, his conquests, death, aftermath ect...
It's a shame the teachers don't have the resources they need to be able to teach ancient history more in depth than two pages on Alexander the Great!

Then again, I was browsing a website of teaching resources today, and thought I'd have a go at the "Ancient Greek quiz" that some teacher had created. There were 4 questions on Alexander, and three of the "correct" answers were incorrect. The "teachers" had also spelled Peloponnesian incorrectly. It's only worth teaching Ancient History if the teachers actually have the foggiest idea what they're talking about!

ATB

Agreed, whole heartedly

[Efstathios]

In Greece, they also have a couple of pages about Alexander the Great in history at school. On the contrary, in junior high school we did almost the whole Iliad in the ancient text with the appropriate modern Greek translation in one year, at philology class. So, i understand why the Iliad is crucial, but it's on Homeric' ancient Greek, and not attic Greek, and we did the entire book. And only a couple of pages about Alexander in one lesson in history.

Some conspiracy theory is appropriate here.

Iliad is a book. A maybe fictional book at the most part. But Alexander's history is not. Why do they teach only a few pages about real history in schools? Why not an entire book about something so important in Greece? And nowdays with the whole Macedonian-Skopjan claims, they should at least teach something more in Greek schools. But they dont. And that's a point for those that talk about Greek propaganda. Which propaganda? The 3-4 pages about Alexander in a history book at school?

Some people dont want the world to have knowledge of ancient history. And history in general. You think why. Think about all the teachings that ancient history has to give. The philosophy, the wars, how things were made, the goods and the bads.

Now, think about the U.S. Do people know history there? No. They dont even know geography. So, they cant judge on what their country does. If it is good or not. The same thing is imposed in the rest of the world, poor knowledge of history. But currently the U.S. holds the sceptre.

[Sandra]

Well, I am happy to hear that at least somewhere in the world situation is improving! We in Latvia still sink in World War II- even our history before this, is almost nothing...
Alexander- some good work O. Stone made here, but again- a lot of peolpe thinks that the film is almost documentary, so....

[rocktupac]

I don't remember hearing anything about Alexander in either elementary school OR high school. It wasn't until I got to college that I was exposed to him and really became interested in him. I was originally an engineer major but changed my degree to history after becoming obsessed with Alexander!

There is an ancient history professor at the University of Wisconsin-Green Bay that really made me want to do this. And in his lower-level class on the history of the Western world, he spends two days on Philip and Alexander. It gets even better: in his upper-level Ancient Greek history course he spends double that, about four days, on the rise of Philip and the campaign of Alexander. He even performs a "Hoplite Day" so the student can march in a phalanx. Both classes were a great experience.

I apologize in advance for the shameless self-promotion But I'm sure all of you will be interested in these videos. Hope you enjoy!

-Link to professor's website: http://www.uwgb.edu/aldreteg/

-Link to "Hoplite Day" video I filmed and posted on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kcUU-U53uk

-Also, check out my "Siege of Tyre" video I made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSAK0neFM20

[jasonxx]

Efts

I kinda sympathise with your reasonings. As you say Alexander is more actual fact and the iliad is maybe loose fiction.

Your Idea about conspiracy.... I dont know but it does seem something as monumental as Alexander isnt whole heartedly taught in Greece.I
im not going into controversy and know its taboo here. But personally I do believe there is an underlying un ease with Alexander The Great. particullally The Greco Macedonian argument.

i think its something impsooible to work out or to even compromise. Id say Macedonia is a hot potatotoe not disimilar to Jeruselem...Who actually has claim to it.

Today it is Greek and in Alexanders day there was no greece only Hellenistic States that despised each other. So theres basically no where to draw a line in the sand.

No doubt had Alexander been athenian Spartan,Theban even maybe todays Greeks would hail and shout it from all schools. But because and for me its a bit iffy. Although I see no problem After All Napoleon Was Corsecan and the French had him as there own.

Maybe todays Greeks are a little bit ashamed of there History lets face it. Alexander. Greek or Macedonian did more for greek Prosperity and culture than any one yet the Greeks Actually hated him as much so he fought against more greeks than Actually fought for him.

Maybe for todays to teach real greek history would in some way blow away the myth of democracy fair play etc. Lots of Alexanders problems were caused by Greeks.

Do Greeks having watched 300 or Troy really want to learn that they were all in the habit of selling out for Persian Gold. Maybe greek myth is heroic and noble the the ideology and history of Ancient Greece aint so rosey.

No offence EFTs

kenny

[Efstathios]

Kenny, we are being taught all these things at school. And the Persian gold, and the city-states wars e.t.c. Had there been a problem with Macedonia and the rest of the city states in the ancient years, since the Roman occupance at 146 b.c. this wasnt an issue anymore. Since then Macedonia and the rest of Greece were as one a part of Hellenism, during the Byzantine Empire, and then during Ottoman occupation and since now. After the rebellion against the Ottomans slowly the Greeks regained the lost areas, and Macedonia was of course included. The only area that was recovered but lost again was Ionia, at 1922.

The matter in the ancient years is very simple too. Macedonia had similar language, culture, and the same religion as the rest of Greece, and was part of the Greek peninsula. Then Demosthenes started to throw mud at Philip, when he said that Macedonians were barbarians e.t.c. Other than that, all the Macedonian Kings claimed origin from Hercules, and from the Peloponnese. True or false, they wouldnt claim origin from there if they didnt think of themselves part of Hellenism.

[jasonxx]

Maybe my question is unansweable. For all the source and history experts. Is it written anywhere that Alexander refered to himself as Greek or Macedonian.?

I have a real problem with the term Ancient Greek wheras its really Hellenes.

Was the Roman Empire ever called the Italian Empire? No ! It was an Empire craeted and Conquered by an Italian City State called Rome.

There was no Greek Empire it was an Empire Created by a Small part of the Helenistic states. And to be fair the Greek have lived on the back of Macedonian Glory for Centuries.

Greek and Helenistic Culture was nothing outside the Mediteranian till the Macedonians were bossing them. Following the succesors were aptly mopped up by the Romans. Bazantines Ottomons.

The greeks have always been some organ grinders monkey

kenny

[Theseus]

In Greece, they also have a couple of pages about Alexander the Great in history at school. On the contrary, in junior high school we did almost the whole Iliad in the ancient text with the appropriate modern Greek translation in one year, at philology class. So, i understand why the Iliad is crucial, but it's on Homeric' ancient Greek, and not attic Greek, and we did the entire book. And only a couple of pages about Alexander in one lesson in history.

Some conspiracy theory is appropriate here.

Iliad is a book. A maybe fictional book at the most part. But Alexander's history is not. Why do they teach only a few pages about real history in schools? Why not an entire book about something so important in Greece? And nowdays with the whole Macedonian-Skopjan claims, they should at least teach something more in Greek schools. But they dont. And that's a point for those that talk about Greek propaganda. Which propaganda? The 3-4 pages about Alexander in a history book at school?

Some people dont want the world to have knowledge of ancient history. And history in general. You think why. Think about all the teachings that ancient history has to give. The philosophy, the wars, how things were made, the goods and the bads.

Now, think about the U.S. Do people know history there? No. They dont even know geography. So, they cant judge on what their country does. If it is good or not. The same thing is imposed in the rest of the world, poor knowledge of history. But currently the U.S. holds the sceptre.

I agree with a lot of what you said but do disagree about the USA. I am from there and know quite a bit about ancient history and am not totally alone. Yes the schools don't teach ancient history the way I believe they should. I also am quite good at geography as well.

[Efstathios]

Yes Theseus, because you have an interest for history. I rember seeing a video where a journalist asked various questions, very easy to answer to U.S citizens, and most of them didnt know the answer. But not only that, he pinpointed Iran or Iraq at the map, purposely at a wrong location, and people didnt have an idea that it was not Iran there. Specificly at a middle aged couple, he pointed Australia which on the map was named as Iran, and asked them from where was better an invasion to happen. They started pondering and saying, from the west, east, e.t.c. They just thought that Australia was Iran.

Kenny, you got your history wrong here. First of all, the Greeks although they had city-states, knew that they were all hellenes, with common origins. There wasnt a country named Hellas, but they had a national consciousness. That's why Agamemnon assembled all the Greeks to attack Troy, and every time there was an intruder trying to invade Greece, the Greeks were uniting their forces. Specifically Plato, Herodotus and others talk about the Hellenic consciousness.

And of course the Greeks made their contributions to the world way before even Macedonia became a Kingdom. There were colonies and trade between Greece and England hundreds of years before, as well as other areas too.

[Theseus]

Yes Theseus, because you have an interest for history. I rember seeing a video where a journalist asked various questions, very easy to answer to U.S citizens, and most of them didnt know the answer. But not only that, he pinpointed Iran or Iraq at the map, purposely at a wrong location, and people didnt have an idea that it was not Iran there. Specificly at a middle aged couple, he pointed Australia which on the map was named as Iran, and asked them from where was better an invasion to happen. They started pondering and saying, from the west, east, e.t.c. They just thought that Australia was Iran.

Kenny, you got your history wrong here. First of all, the Greeks although they had city-states, knew that they were all hellenes, with common origins. There wasnt a country named Hellas, but they had a national consciousness. That's why Agamemnon assembled all the Greeks to attack Troy, and every time there was an intruder trying to invade Greece, the Greeks were uniting their forces. Specifically Plato, Herodotus and others talk about the Hellenic consciousness.


And of course the Greeks made their contributions to the world way before even Macedonia became a Kingdom. There were colonies and trade between Greece and England hundreds of years before, as well as other areas too.

Yes there are some "dimly lit" people out there, but that doesn't speak for all of the US or other countries that have some of the same types of ignorance. It's a shame that there are people that don't know where certain countries are and it needs to be blamed on what's being teached in school. Also instead of making sure the students know what they are being taught, sometimes they are allowed to pass without knowing these things. I hope that our country isn't stereo typed for those ignorant people that don't know such things.

[Efstathios]

Theseus, it is stereotyped. Outside the U.S, in Europe for example, many people have the idea that in the U.S the educational level is low. And that many people dont even know basic things about the world. The problem with the U.S is that a lot of people are living in poverty, especially the imigrands, and black people. School is not their priority. There are of course these that want to learn. As i am not living in the U.S i canot say for sure. You have a better picture there about the educational level, and how many people have a fairly good education when they graduate.

[Theseus]

Theseus, it is stereotyped. Outside the U.S, in Europe for example, many people have the idea that in the U.S the educational level is low. And that many people dont even know basic things about the world. The problem with the U.S is that a lot of people are living in poverty, especially the imigrands, and black people. School is not their priority. There are of course these that want to learn. As i am not living in the U.S i canot say for sure. You have a better picture there about the educational level, and how many people have a fairly good education when they graduate.

I did take your words as an insult to my country and have tried to defend it. I think ALL countries have the same type of problems with people that don't know or have interest in worldly things.
You had stated:(Now, think about the U.S. Do people know history there? No. They dont even know geography. So, they cant judge on what their country does. If it is good or not. The same thing is imposed in the rest of the world, poor knowledge of history. But currently the U.S. holds the sceptre.)
and : (I rember seeing a video where a journalist asked various questions, very easy to answer to U.S citizens, and most of them didnt know the answer. But not only that, he pinpointed Iran or Iraq at the map, purposely at a wrong location, and people didnt have an idea that it was not Iran there. Specificly at a middle aged couple, he pointed Australia which on the map was named as Iran, and asked them from where was better an invasion to happen. They started pondering and saying, from the west, east, e.t.c. They just thought that Australia was Iran. )

What you said does stereotype the US. Is all of this based on that show you mentioned you watched? If so that is a poor way to determine an opinion of a nation. I don't want to get into an argument because everyone has their own views. You will never see me putting down your country or any other because our cultures are different and therfore can not be compared 100% against one another.
For some smart Americans how about Benjamin Franklin & Thomas Edison who figured out how to utilize electricity? Alexander Graham Bell who invented the telephone? Bill Gates is pretty smart as well. There are many many more Americans who have contributed to the things that the whole world enjoy today.

[Efstathios]

I did take your words as an insult to my country and have tried to defend it. I think ALL countries have the same type of problems with people that don't know or have interest in worldly things.

No need to take my words as an insult Theseus. I didnt aim at insulting anyone, so if i did, i apologize. Surely in all countries there are uneducated people and such, but in the U.S the problem is even bigger due to the massive amount of people that live in poverty. (I dont count 3rd world countries, we are talking about countries that are supposed to be the developed). I said that the U.S hold the sceptre in this sector, and this is the oppinion of many people outside the U.S. And they are not expressing it so kindly either.

I didnt form an oppinion based on a show, but with conversations with Americans, my brother who lived in San Diengo for two years, and friends of mine who studied there. But the thing is that it's not only the black people, or the Mexicans, e.t.c that most of them dont even finish school that have a low level of education, but that many other people too, are unaware of basic things. It's like the U.S is under some kind of restriction from the outside world. I remember during the war at Serbia, and Iraq, Americans that came as tourists to Greece and watched the news, couldnt believe the things that happened and didnt see on cnn or the rest of the American and British news networks. You didnt (i am not reffering personally to you) get to hear the news about the children that died from a "smart" bomb that missed, and all the other things that they dont want you to see.

The thing is that there is an effort to make people uneducated about some things, not only in the U.S but in the rest of the world. The U.S was simply their starting point. Henry Kissinger once said at an interview at a magazine about the Greeks, that they are tough to tame and subbmit, and that in order to do that we must acculturate them, the religion, the family, the language. By these words i understand that they have already done that elsewere. And truly in the past decades in Greece, the language has changed to the worst, family values are not that they used to be, and so is education.