So big a mystery!

[system1988]

While reading once more the thread here about "Roxane Tomb" I realized that the site is missing a video from the actual excavation site.

So I am sending you 2 links with videos (in Greek) in which the archaeologists responsible for the excavation talk as well as the local authorities do. In the 2nd video, the last lady talking is C. Paliadeli, a close collaborator of Andronikos - she talks about the importance of the finding.

Please note the " " (quotes) I put on "Roxane Tomb". The monument his enormus, at least by Greek standards. Never in Greece has a monument of that scale ever been found! With half a kilometer perimeter (500m) and 160 m diameter, all made from the expensive, white marble from the island of Thassos this monument is something different. As the archaeologists state, it was build in the last quarter of the 4th BC.

Amphipolis was a very important city for Greece since Alexander himself wanted a temple build there that would have costed 1500 talanta. After the death of Olympias, Cassander selected the city as a place for her exile and Alexander IV's. It was also one of the last cities that were held by the Macedon king Perseas against the march of the Roman Empire. Moreover, Amphipolis was the place on which the houses of Alexander's most prestigious fleet captains had their houses. Nearchos, Androsthenes and Laomedon.

We can make many an assumption about the content the posssible tomb may have: It may be empty! It may be totally sacrileged, or it may contain a large number of deceased warriors (of what battle I wonder?). But let us dream a bit.

The sources tell us of the details of how Cassander poisoned Roxane and Alexander IV and other ones suggest them perish from the plague. It all happened in Amphipolis. In any case, one thing is 100% certain: Cassander HAD TO BURRY those two with the highest honors if he wished to have a considerable political pull for the throne (of course he covered the fact that he poisoned them) - N.G.L Hammond.

Let's resume dreaming! Even if we should find their bones, we can tell the hight of the woman whom Alexander fell in love with and married. In the case where we were to find the bones of Alexander IV there's so much we can tell from it for his father! That's DNA analysis for you!

Time to wake up!

But, my god, the monument is HUGE!

http://www.protothema.gr/culture/article/?aid=227818

http://krasodad.blogspot.gr/2012/10/blog-post_5.html

ps ---> scroll down a bit to see the videos

[Xenophon]

A big mystery indeed!....And clearly early days on what is going to be a massive project, if it is to be excavated properly.

Such a circular structure does not sound as if it bears any relation to other Macedonian type tombs.

What makes the archaeologists think it is a "possible" tomb at all ? Is it under an artificial mound, for example ? Presumably some artifacts have come to light to allow the dating ?

And isn't the so-called "Prince's Tomb" at Vergina believed to be the likely tomb of Alexander IV ?

Even this is at odds with our sources who record that Glaucias murdered Roxanne and Alexander IV at the behest of Kassander, and "concealed" the bodies [ e.g. Diodorus Siculus XIX.105.2] which makes an elaborate tomb for Roxanne rather unlikely, doesn't it ?

Can you tell us anything more at this time?

[agesilaos]

Mmmh, no way Kassandros would have erected such a monument, he kept the deaths secret for four years or so, and had no percentage in promoting the Argaeads after reburying Philip III et al; how the halfling prince was viewed in Macedonia seems a moot point, Kassandros does not seem to have suffered when the deaths came to light although the fact that they were concealed in the first place demonstrates that he had concerns. Philip V died in Amphipolis but such a large monument suggests something akin to the tombs of the Ptolemies, a dynastic monument for the Antigonids? Demetrios Poliorketes was given a funeral at Korinth and re-interred in Demetrias by Antigonas Gonatas but the state of our sources would not preclude a further re-burial; Gonatas himself has a grave claimed for him at Vergina it seems, although I have not read of this, the other kings' resting places are unknown. The main problem with this is the lack of any mention in the literary record of such a monument, one would expect it to be mentioned in Livy's or Polybios' treatment of Philip V. I look forward to further excavation reports.

[hiphys]

This huge monument is really strange: perhaps it's more similar to the tumulus of Marathon (where the Athenians were buried). But if no bones were found till now, it may be a cenotaph. So it's possible that the so-called 'Prince's Tomb' at Vergina is the likely tomb of Alexander IV, and this monument is only a memorial (of Alexander IV, Roxane, and other people too). Nevertheless it's very interesting: thanks for posting the two films with comments!

[Paralus]

Mmmh, no way Kassandros would have erected such a monument, he kept the deaths secret for four years or so, and had no percentage in promoting the Argaeads after reburying Philip III et al; how the halfling prince was viewed in Macedonia seems a moot point, Kassandros does not seem to have suffered when the deaths came to light although the fact that they were concealed in the first place demonstrates that he had concerns.

Agreed. Cassander found a better result by attaching himself to the "Philip II side" of the Argead line; the marriage and the city foundations, etc. Alexander III had been a "king by correspondence" for almost all his reign as far as Macedonia was concerned and, whilst this does not mean he was "unlfriended on Facebook" by the homeland (to borrow Dr. Lara O'Sullivan's line), Antipater and Philip II likely resonated that little bit more. As well, Cassander was in no position to benefit from Alexander association. On the other - Alexander III - hand, Cassander would always be outpointed by men "who conquered the whole world under Philip and Alexander" as Antigenes claimed at Gabiene. The theme of having campaigned with Alexander, having gained "preferment" or having risen to one's position because of Alexander is strong in early Diadoch history. Cassander could claim, at best, to have been his father's postman under Alexander. Aligning himself with the homeland via Philip makes more sense.

Antigonus, too, has this problem - only a slightly different version. He'd been left in Phrygia for all those years doing a marvelous job for his king. He was not, as far we know, even consulted during the Babylon Settlement. His resentment of that, and the decisions taken, is likely a part of the reason for his inaction over Cappadocia.

[system1988]

The main problem with this is the lack of any mention in the literary record of such a monument, one would expect it to be mentioned in Livy's or Polybios' treatment of Philip V. I look forward to further excavation reports.

Like I said before it is rare an occassion which the sources are in accordance with the excavation findings.

Can you tell us anything more at this time?

I've got good news! The dig continues with funds coming from the municipality level of Macedonia. Because of the rumors circulating this, the archaeologists are not very generous with the ammount of information they let out. So far I know of a coin which is dated back to 313 BC. There are however rumors of it being a cenotaph (for whom?).


I will keep you posted.

[hiphys]

I'm glad that cenotaph was a conjecture of mine too!

[Xenophon]

Paralus wrote:

Cassander could claim, at best, to have been his father's postman under Alexander. Aligning himself with the homeland via Philip makes more sense.

Without diving into the politics too deeply, there was also the Antipatrid antipathy to Alexander III, for there was inevitable tension between the "King by Correspondence" and Macedonia's real ruler, which Antipater's son Cassander inherited.
Cassander apparently stood out amongst the diadochi in his hostility to Alexander's memory. Not to mention that 7 years after Alexander's death, Olympias accused him of poisoning Alexander, as did Perdiccas. As Cassander and the other diadochi struggled for power, Olympias, who had feuded with Antipater, killed Arrhidaeus, and many of Cassander's faction and family, as well as Eurydike, great niece of Philip.
Cassander understandably retorted by taking action, besieging her and starving her out, killing her after her surrender despite guaranteeing her life. He turned against Roxane and her son Alexander IV some 12 months after taking them under his wing as "guests" [hostages], and Alexander’s supposed illegitimate son Heracles was also executed on Cassander's orders. Cassander's decision to restore Thebes, which had been destroyed under Alexander, was perceived at the time to be a snub to the deceased King. Cassander has been perceived to be ambitious and unscrupulous, and even members of his own family were estranged from him, a brother and sister disgraced by him.

But all in all, he had good reasons to hate Olympias, inherited from his father and expanded upon, and hence her son Alexander, and by association, Alexander's wife Roxane and son Alexander IV.....

And he was a good 'hater'......after all, in the end he wiped out Alexander's line, root and branch......