More on Stone's Alexander sides

[karen]

Just thought I'd continue this conversation on a new thread since the original one is about to slide off the bottom of the page into Pothos oblivion... Rebecca wrote:"Anyone who's read all of the sides -- are there any more blatant similarities to her books to be found?"I'm here with the Kleitos side onscreen, and my copy of _The Persian Boy_ in hand, turned to the argument & death of Kleitos scene.Nope.... very little similarity, the argument takes a quite different course. There are thematic similarities, e.g. Kleitos praising Philip over Alexander, and scorning Persians, but any version is going to have those. The deadly insults are very different. No meat here for Renault's estate's lawyers, imo.Lots of mistakes, though. Marrying a Persian? Alexander hadn't married anyone yet. Indian guests? I hope Mr. Lane Fox is being vigilant.I don't see a lot of similarities with the Young Ptolemy side or the Hephaistion side, either. The Young Alexander ones, I can't say, I've never read _Fire From Heaven_.Love & peace,
Karen

[Kal]

You never read Fire From Heaven??*blink*:)

[rebecca]

Thank you for sharing, Karen -- it's much appreciated. So in what little we have to go on at this point, Oliver Stone seems to have confined his Renault-lifting to Bagoas and some of his scenes, at least the few we've been privy to. Frankly, I don't mind -- if one's going to lift from any works of Alexander fiction, by all means let it be from Mary Renault's books. It's probably the closest we'll get to anyone actually filming The Persian Boy. But if these portions of the script (along with any other utilization of Renault's work) end up in the finished film, I do want to see her get the attribution she deserves.IIRC, wasn't Mel Gibson's ill-fated HBO miniseries supposed to be based at least partly on The Persian Boy? If so, and if Stone didn't buy the rights to it from that production company, they too might be very interested in his use of her novel...

[karen]

Yes, I know that's hard to believe, especially considering that I am a diehard Mary Renault fan. I used to avoid reading books about Alexander, and still haven't caught up on all that I should.I will read it, probably when I've finished the rough draft but not yet finalized my own version of Alexander's youth, just to find out what I might have written inadvertently that's similar, and so could be accused of aping. I will I will, I promise ;-)Love & peace,
Karen

[Marc]

>IIRC, wasn't Mel Gibson's ill-fated HBO miniseries >supposed to be based at least partly on The >Persian Boy? If so, and if Stone didn't buy the >rights to it from that production company, they >too might be very interested in his use of her >novel... IIRC, wasn't Mel Gibson's ill-fated HBO miniseries >supposed to be based at least partly on The >Persian Boy? If so, and if Stone didn't buy the >rights to it from that production company, they >too might be very interested in his use of her >novel... IIRC, wasn't Mel Gibson's ill-fated HBO miniseries >supposed to be based at least partly on The >Persian Boy? If so, and if Stone didn't buy the >rights to it from that production company, they >too might be very interested in his use of her >novel... supposed to be based at least partly on The >Persian Boy? If so, and if Stone didn't buy the >rights to it from that production company, they >too might be very interested in his use of her >novel... supposed to be based at least partly on The >Persian Boy? If so, and if Stone didn't buy the >rights to it from that production company, they >too might be very interested in his use of her >novel... Persian Boy? If so, and if Stone didn't buy the >rights to it from that production company, they >too might be very interested in his use of her >novel... Persian Boy? If so, and if Stone didn't buy the >rights to it from that production company, they >too might be very interested in his use of her >novel... rights to it from that production company, they >too might be very interested in his use of her >novel... rights to it from that production company, they >too might be very interested in his use of her >novel... too might be very interested in his use of her >novel... too might be very interested in his use of her >novel... novel... novel... Yes, I believe one episode of the Gibson mini-series was to be titled "The Persian Boy." It crossed my mind that there might have been some mix-up with the website providing the sides, and that scenes from the cancelled mini-series were actually released. I hope not, though. I want to see at least portions of Renault being filmed in any form -- as longs as she is credited.

[Kal]

I can understand not wanting to read stuff so your own work is 'fresher', not to be influenced. Makes perfect sense.

[Me]

On the other hand, I know someone who took years to get through The Persian Boy because the book made them so angry they kept tossing it! Stil don't think they ever finished it!
I can just imagine what they would make of Manfredi, et al today!!
So.. do most people on the Forum read ATG fiction as well as historic sources? I tend not to read the fiction, but have read Renault.. and a terribly funny book by Helga Moray, a trilogy, called I, Roxanne... Well, it wasn't SUPPOSED to be funny!
So what are some of the fictions? So far I know of
the Renault trilogy
Helga Moray's trilogy I,Roxanne
Manfredi trilogy
Daughter of Neoptolemus
Lamb's Alexander of Macedon
Tarr's Lord of Two Lands
GA Hauser's new book
A Choice of Destinies
I also know of others being written or completed that are not published outside of the Pothos list as well as those on the Pothos site
Then of course the books in which ATG has some bits such as the Hell series and the Meluch book, though the name escapes me right now..
Anyone out there a diehard fiction fan who has read all of the published books? Which do you consider the best read and why?
Thanks

[John.]

I like that. You know someone who took years to read Mary Renault because she made them so angry, they kept tossing the book.I know the feeling. I have a beat-up paperback of The Persian Boy. I have never yet been able to read two consequtive words before the book starts flying across the room.I gave up even trying to read The Persian Boy, but I read a quote from her glancing at one of her books in the bookstore about how she would love to see Alexander walking through the desert with a black face. That definitely stuck in my mind, along with a cold chill.John

[Me]

Hmm, but I think the anger was probably for different reasons Not sure what you mean about the "black face".. I have read her biography and don't recall that.
It was in reference to???

[John.]

It was someone else writing a blurb for a book (an autobiography?) by or about Mary Renault, who was quoting her saying something like, "I would like to see Alexander's face burnt to a black crisp."I can't remember the exact quote; I was too struck by the cold chill. THAT I remember. Brrrr.John

[lanval]

I've been lurking for a while, but I might as well jump in here.:)The quote you're looking for is from David Sweetman's book, 'Mary Renault: A Biography'. It's an excerpt from a letter she wrote to a friend.p.256:
"....His face has haunted me for years; the amazing eyes, the way his hair springs from his brow, and what must already early in his twenties have been his weather-beaten beauty, his skin burnt almost black and his hair almost white with sun.'There is no part of my body' he said to somebody,' free from scars. Anyway, in front.'...."Strangely enough, in "The Persian Boy" (lovely book, IMO) Alexander's skin is described as very fair, and prone to sunburn. Maybe she changed her mind. All the best,
Corina

[John.]

Yeah, that sounds like the quote. "...his skin burnt almost black."I've had bad sunburns before, even combined with windburns, from waterskiing and snow skiing in the spring. The skin turns hot red for a couple days and hurts; then turns into a beautiful tan. But I can't imagine being burnt almost black. How could that happen to fair skinned Alexander, unless some witch threw him into an oven.... Which is what I should do with Mary Renault's book. Throw it into the oven!John

[Me]

Hmm, the spirit of the quote is quite different. I believe she was painting a verbal "picture" of someone who has been exposed to the sun on a continual basis for some time- and while some fair folk DO burn, others can get literally almost black with sunburn, then healing, then burning again. You see that frequently, working outside a lot.
Mary was pro-Alexander; she would not have said anything to diminish him, though she was well aware of his faults. She UNDERSTOOD them so it was easier for her not to beat him into the ground about them.
That said, I would never burn a book- even the bad ones. Too much of THAT has already happened, and of course, "bad" depends on your point of view.
And I know of no one I would trust to make THAT decision for me!

[susan]

I first read the Helga Moray years ago, and re-read one of the novels two years ago. It was pure pulp fiction, even down to the cover which had Roxana as a 50s Hollywood siren. I thought that a better book was Aubrey Menen's "Conspiracy of Women", but that's meant to be an allegory about Anglo-India so it shouldn't be taken too literally. There's also a Jorges Luis Borges Letter to Aristotle .Jeanne Reames-Zimmermann has a page devoted to Alexander fiction, which covers most of the newer stuff. if you want I'll post the referenceSusan

[james]

why can noone manage to read the Persian boy
without tossing it?