Maybe the love of ancient history is surfacing again?!

[athenas owl]

I do feel a cringe everytime the current President of the United States opens his mouth. This is a man who went to Yale AND Harvard who didn't understand the differences between Sunni and Shia until AFTER he had invaded two Muslim countries. Amongst many other....things.

However, I do talk to people from all over the world. There are glaringly bad viewpoints and misunderstandings to be found everywhere. But it is saddening that the U.S. with it's enormous resources doesn't have a better educational system or a more curious people.

Anyhoo....I have four volumes of Will and Ariel Durant's The Story of Civilization cluttered about my work area for some quick philosophical look ups. I know he (for the volumes are the first four and Ariel can not be held responsible) falls into a thousand errors in his works, but then he was a philosopher. And I believe I stole words from that last sentence from him! But I treasure these books, taking the first ten volumes with me when I left home at 15 and managing to keep them with me through a turbulent youth. I got the last volume some years later.

His writing and wit made me love history and even now it is just a joy to read his writing. I was trying to get the "gist" of Greek philosophy and found myself reading into the wee hours last night, through to Justinian. Gibbons is just about as entertaining, too. That's me, I look to histories to entertain me.

And I am also reading Fitzgerald's translation of the Iliad. Perhaps translation isn't the right word, but what a read! I've tried to wade through Pope once, long ago and have Fagles' which I like a lot, but I love this version. It's a ripping tale.

[amyntoros]

And I am also reading Fitzgerald's translation of the Iliad. Perhaps translation isn't the right word, but what a read! I've tried to wade through Pope once, long ago and have Fagles' which I like a lot, but I love this version. It's a ripping tale.

Fitzgerald's translation is my favorite! I'm actually moved to tears on occasion, although I'm not sure that was Homer's intent.

Best regards,

[Theseus]

I did take your words as an insult to my country and have tried to defend it. I think ALL countries have the same type of problems with people that don't know or have interest in worldly things.

No need to take my words as an insult Theseus. I didnt aim at insulting anyone, so if i did, i apologize. Surely in all countries there are uneducated people and such, but in the U.S the problem is even bigger due to the massive amount of people that live in poverty. (I dont count 3rd world countries, we are talking about countries that are supposed to be the developed). I said that the U.S hold the sceptre in this sector, and this is the oppinion of many people outside the U.S. And they are not expressing it so kindly either.

I didnt form an oppinion based on a show, but with conversations with Americans, my brother who lived in San Diengo for two years, and friends of mine who studied there. But the thing is that it's not only the black people, or the Mexicans, e.t.c that most of them dont even finish school that have a low level of education, but that many other people too, are unaware of basic things. It's like the U.S is under some kind of restriction from the outside world. I remember during the war at Serbia, and Iraq, Americans that came as tourists to Greece and watched the news, couldnt believe the things that happened and didnt see on cnn or the rest of the American and British news networks. You didnt (i am not reffering personally to you) get to hear the news about the children that died from a "smart" bomb that missed, and all the other things that they dont want you to see.

The thing is that there is an effort to make people uneducated about some things, not only in the U.S but in the rest of the world. The U.S was simply their starting point. Henry Kissinger once said at an interview at a magazine about the Greeks, that they are tough to tame and subbmit, and that in order to do that we must acculturate them, the religion, the family, the language. By these words i understand that they have already done that elsewere. And truly in the past decades in Greece, the language has changed to the worst, family values are not that they used to be, and so is education.

I am not naive about things that the US does. I have friends that are serving in Iraq and Afghanistan and I know what is going on over there. I am not saying I agree or disagree with war. I do feel things happen while you are at war that are very shameful and sad when it affects the innocent, especially children. One thing I like to hold on to is what one of the people serving over there told me, he said when he first got to Iraq children were running around without shoes on and weren't going to school and when he went back for his second tour the children had new shoes, clothing and were going to school. There is good and there is bad all over the world.
I have to say that the area I live in the people are very caring and are there when you need them. The local school collected coloring books and crayons for the soldiers to take with them when they went back to Iraq to give to the Iraqi children, because a child at the school thought it would be nice to give other children something that they enjoy so much.
In this day and age not one child should worry about where his or her next meal will come from or if they'll have clothes ect.... Yes things need to change all over the world. I hold nothing against you Efstathios, we have had some nice conversations in the past and I enjoy them. Everyone is different and that makes life so interesting! Imagine if everyone had the same opinion?!

[Efstathios]

I agree with you Theseus. To return to the original subject, i think ancient history must be taught more thoroughly at schools all over the world, because from history you essentially learn. There are some teachers that care to do this, but it's not enough. The whole system must change to that direction. Knowledge is power. And someone by having knowledge he cannot be easily manipulated.

[Theseus]

I agree with you Theseus. To return to the original subject, i think ancient history must be taught more thoroughly at schools all over the world, because from history you essentially learn. There are some teachers that care to do this, but it's not enough. The whole system must change to that direction. Knowledge is power. And someone by having knowledge he cannot be easily manipulated.

So much is lost when history is ignored. I was so excited and touched that these students yearned for more, yet the teacher didn't have sufficient materials to teach them with. I am glad their teacher knew I have an interest in ancient history and asked for help with this. This is why I want to go to college and either become a professor of ancient history or an archeologist. I feel the strong urge to do something to keep ancient history alive to upcoming generations.

[Vergina Sun]

It certainly is a shame that ancient history isn't being covered as thoroughly as it should be. Especially, as some people mentioned, in countries with so many resources and abilities to teach so much. I'm not going to get into the politics of the "War in Iraq" but look how quickly we invade one of the most historically rich places on the earth. So much is being lost without the knowledge of history. I was talking to some of my friends the other day and they were shocked when I told them the Persian Empire was once the strongest world force. They thought the Middle East was always wracked with poverty. I recall I did learn all of my ancient history in 6th grade, along with everyone else in my school. I think the problem isn't only that ancient history isn't being taught enough, but also that the importance of history isn't being stressed.

I just came back from a B. Dalton bookstore, which is a branch of Barnes & Nobles, a pretty respected bookstore chain around here. I was searching for their history section. First I found an entire shelf dedicated to American History. I asked where they kept their ancient history, and they gave me one small shelf titled "World History" that had the "rest of the world's" history, past and present, crammed onto one tiny shelf. All I found was some books on scandals of British queens, WWI, WW2, and one book about Thermopylae. Apparently, that's all the world history people care about nowadays

[Theseus]

It certainly is a shame that ancient history isn't being covered as thoroughly as it should be. Especially, as some people mentioned, in countries with so many resources and abilities to teach so much. I'm not going to get into the politics of the "War in Iraq" but look how quickly we invade one of the most historically rich places on the earth. So much is being lost without the knowledge of history. I was talking to some of my friends the other day and they were shocked when I told them the Persian Empire was once the strongest world force. They thought the Middle East was always wracked with poverty. I recall I did learn all of my ancient history in 6th grade, along with everyone else in my school. I think the problem isn't only that ancient history isn't being taught enough, but also that the importance of history isn't being stressed.

I just came back from a B. Dalton bookstore, which is a branch of Barnes & Nobles, a pretty respected bookstore chain around here. I was searching for their history section. First I found an entire shelf dedicated to American History. I asked where they kept their ancient history, and they gave me one small shelf titled "World History" that had the "rest of the world's" history, past and present, crammed onto one tiny shelf. All I found was some books on scandals of British queens, WWI, WW2, and one book about Thermopylae. Apparently, that's all the world history people care about nowadays

Again we agree on so much Vergina! The hanging gardens of Babylon is one of the 7 ancient wonders of the world. They say it was so beautiful with all of the hanging plants and colors on the buildings. Here is a quote regarding this:

I have set eyes on the wall of lofty Babylon on which is a road for chariots, and the statue of Zeus by the Alpheus, and the hanging gardens, and the Colossus of the Sun, and the huge labour of the high pyramids, and the vast tomb of Mausolus; but when I saw the house of Artemis that mounted to the clouds, those other marvels lost their brilliancy, and I said, 'Lo, apart from Olympus, the Sun never looked on aught so grand.'

– Antipater, Greek Anthology IX.58

and:

Diodorus described multi-levelled gardens reaching 22 metres (75 feet) high, complete with machinery for circulating water. Large trees grew on the roof.

I think people need to not be understand that all of the ancient world has something to offer us today. Another of the 7 wonders of the ancient world was the lighthouse at Alexandria, another link to Alexander.

[Theseus]

The lighthouse was made after Alexander died, but of course is in the city he founded. Here is a better picture of it.

and the hanging gardens:

some of the ruins from today just east of the Euphrates:

[athenas owl]

And I am also reading Fitzgerald's translation of the Iliad. Perhaps translation isn't the right word, but what a read! I've tried to wade through Pope once, long ago and have Fagles' which I like a lot, but I love this version. It's a ripping tale.

Fitzgerald's translation is my favorite! I'm actually moved to tears on occasion, although I'm not sure that was Homer's intent.

Best regards,

Were the ancient readers/listeners opposed to a good cry?

It is wonderful. I find myself enveloped by it, immersed in that world. The characters come alive and I can visualise it like I never have before. I've actually read a few parts of it aloud to my husband. The blank verse helps a lot, the drama is there (and what a drama) and the "feel" of an epic, without ...it seems more accessible. I'd love to have it read to me...

[Vergina Sun]

It certainly is a shame that ancient history isn't being covered as thoroughly as it should be. Especially, as some people mentioned, in countries with so many resources and abilities to teach so much. I'm not going to get into the politics of the "War in Iraq" but look how quickly we invade one of the most historically rich places on the earth. So much is being lost without the knowledge of history. I was talking to some of my friends the other day and they were shocked when I told them the Persian Empire was once the strongest world force. They thought the Middle East was always wracked with poverty. I recall I did learn all of my ancient history in 6th grade, along with everyone else in my school. I think the problem isn't only that ancient history isn't being taught enough, but also that the importance of history isn't being stressed.

I just came back from a B. Dalton bookstore, which is a branch of Barnes & Nobles, a pretty respected bookstore chain around here. I was searching for their history section. First I found an entire shelf dedicated to American History. I asked where they kept their ancient history, and they gave me one small shelf titled "World History" that had the "rest of the world's" history, past and present, crammed onto one tiny shelf. All I found was some books on scandals of British queens, WWI, WW2, and one book about Thermopylae. Apparently, that's all the world history people care about nowadays

Again we agree on so much Vergina! The hanging gardens of Babylon is one of the 7 ancient wonders of the world. They say it was so beautiful with all of the hanging plants and colors on the buildings. Here is a quote regarding this:

I have set eyes on the wall of lofty Babylon on which is a road for chariots, and the statue of Zeus by the Alpheus, and the hanging gardens, and the Colossus of the Sun, and the huge labour of the high pyramids, and the vast tomb of Mausolus; but when I saw the house of Artemis that mounted to the clouds, those other marvels lost their brilliancy, and I said, 'Lo, apart from Olympus, the Sun never looked on aught so grand.'

– Antipater, Greek Anthology IX.58

and:

Diodorus described multi-levelled gardens reaching 22 metres (75 feet) high, complete with machinery for circulating water. Large trees grew on the roof.

I think people need to not be understand that all of the ancient world has something to offer us today. Another of the 7 wonders of the ancient world was the lighthouse at Alexandria, another link to Alexander.

First, thanks for the lovely pictures. The Seven Ancient Wonders of the World never cease to amaze me. We always think of great inventions to be in the present or at least near the present, but so many great achievements have happened in the ancient world. So much of our architecture and planning is based on historical buildings, but few people acknowledge the great builders who first designed these!

[Theseus]

Can you imagine seeing these things in person back then? To walk through the gates of Babylon and see the beautiful architecture?
I saw a special that talked about how they made the Alexandria lighthouse work way back then. They used fire and mirrors(beaten metal) to reflect the light to guide the ships. It's so amazing to see what ancient people could do with the resources available to them. Look at the pyramids! All of the ancient wonders were such accomplishments.

[Theseus]

I have to do some proud parent bragging. My daughter took her Greek history test last week and just gave me the graded paper and she got 94% A. This short course they took covered Sparta, Athens, Macedonia, Mycenaeans and the war with Persia. She got the highest grade in her class. She watches the history channel with me when there is a special on about Greece or Egypt so some of it must have stuck with her. I'm so proud

[Vergina Sun]

I have to do some proud parent bragging. My daughter took her Greek history test last week and just gave me the graded paper and she got 94% A. This short course they took covered Sparta, Athens, Macedonia, Mycenaeans and the war with Persia. She got the highest grade in her class. She watches the history channel with me when there is a special on about Greece or Egypt so some of it must have stuck with her. I'm so proud

Congratulations, Theseus! Perhaps the love for ancient history is genetic!

[Theseus]

Thanks Vergina, I am starting to think that may be the case. Besides my daughter only one other student got a good grade and the rest got D's . It makes me happy about my daughter but sad about the other students that just didn't seem to care about ancient Greek history.

[Vergina Sun]

D's? That is quite disappointing. I'm very glad your daughter scored so highly. Both of you should be very proud. However, the fact that the majority of the class didn't even pass is quite disturbing. I am hoping that it was because they didn't have time to study or they were just having a bad day, but it seems unlikely. I just don't want it to be because they don't care for ancient history - . I know, it sounds like impossibility when we're surrounded by such great minds in this forum, but unfortunately, not everyone in the world cares for history as much as we do.